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Walter & Group,
Here are a few more answers to our haul questions :
>From Ally Gowans....
Hi Gordy,
The missing question is:
Why? What could the student be doing (or not doing) that is incorrect in order to cause the problem? (Making good back hauls and less good forward hauls is very common why?)
Best wishes,
Ally Gowans
[GH] Good point, Ally ! I made the assumption that this was covered when I stated that her haul timing was off on her forward cast but not with her back cast.
Obviously, more information on just what the timing problem was would lead to a sharpened diagnosis. This, in turn, would direct the efforts at "cure" more efficiently.
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From Jim Bass :
Gordy when Ol Al refined my double haul he had me cast horizontal in front of me so I could see the difference as I made the hauls. Another thing he made me do was to make the cast using the haul only with a little movement of my upper body but no rod hand. This lets the student know what the haul can do also builds timing. I like to show the student what they are doing thus duplicate their cast myself. I also go over the time to start the haul. With a beginning student I like to start the haul when they start acceleration. This can be refined as they become more proficient.
The best thing is to get the student to see what the timing is doing to the haul and horizontal cast in front seem to work.
I was teaching yesterday at a camp for children with terminal blood disorders. It gave me a good lesson not taking tomorrow for granted for it may not come. Another thing is these kids must be treated just like any other when you are teaching. My local club the FWFF had eight volunteers and we got more out of it than the kids.
I go next week to a Parks and Wild Life department program called Bass Brigade. I will teach and cook for the campers and cadre for a week. This is for High School Students who want to make their life's work in the outdoors.
Glad to hear from you.
The Best Jim
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[GH] Jim....
You are right in that SEEING is important when learning hauls.
Mark Sedotti has, however, brought up a good point when he discusses learning by FEEL.
When I have students who learn best by sensing the feel of the cast, I often have them cast with eyes closed to sharpen this sense.
I was teaching a buddy to haul efficiently with limited success. One evening, we were fishing as it got progressively darker. The next day, his haul problems had "magically" disappeared !
Gordy
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From Lewis Hinks :
Hi Gordy,
Question 1.
Short answer: Begin haul when you begin the power snap ( or wrist rotation)
Long answer: Haul should be in sync with the cast. A short quick haul the matches the wrist rotation in duration will give greatly increased line speed. I would show the student, in very slow motion, where the haul, on the forward cast is placed. I have sometimes done this with the rod and no line out, sort of like a pantomime.
Question 2
Other tricks: 2 part practice. Haul on back cast and let the line drop to the ground and reset the hands, then forward cast with haul. Use a rubber band on a practice rod to give the feeling of downup/down.
Use the horizontal plane to practice so you can see, and just as important feel, where to place the haul.
The accelerator fly casting trainer is a good tool for working on the haul.
Lewis
[GH] Another way is to invoke the concept of the haul being a mirror image of the casting stroke. For me this works well when we go from learning the haul with one length of line and graduate to learning to match the length and power application of the haul to that of the stroke length as we go from hauling with short casts to long ones.
Gordy
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[GH] This message from David Diaz should be read carefully by Master Candidates ..... even archived by them as a reminder before taking an exam :
G: It would be wonderful for students to look at the range of responses. I would be enthralled to look at the range of effective remedies from teachers who had the same problem: female, good timing on backcast, bad coord of haul on forward cast. This could be a very fine lesson for you to demonstrate conclusively. Because the XXY solution worked for me and my student doesn't mean it will work for all teachers and all the students. What defines the successful approach is what will work for those in the interaction. The true skill of a teacher is determing on the spot what works for the problem in front of him not the problem in front of someone else.
If I handed this problem to a candidate during an exam, I would ask why he he provided the remedy he did. If the response is larded with Lefty says, and Mel says, and Joan says, or he suggests adjustments to mechanics, ie, altering stroke length, then I know the candidate was naive and trying to sound like a grownup instructor. For teaching, it's not enough to remember what Lefty said, or Gordie said, or what Diaz claimed in an email response two years ago. The instructor succeeds when he determines on the spot what actual problems the particular student has and determines what the effective remedy is for that student.
The significance of the lesson is that cookbook remedies are not to be trusted. That is a point not frequently enough made clear especially by celeb instructors but one that you sound repeatedly. . But, I doubt that many hear you unless they teach actual students regularly.
David
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[GH] Once having digested David Diaz's note, above, take note of his detailed message containing his solution to the haul problem :-
G: Here's the remedy that I used for the female caster with the hauling problem. It's important, Gordy, to keep in mind that cookbook remedies cannot be trusted. Because it worked for me and my student is not guarantee that it will work for all. Thus, I have detailed the remedy to disclose the thinking that determined it.
The problem that you provided for resolution was not how to teach the double haul. You described a specific problem that a student of mine had. Just so everyone understands the problem I saw, here's a quick description. She could haul on the backcast, but on the forward cast, she commenced forward with her rod hand and hauled with her line hand at the same time.
The most important assessment for the instructor is to determine why she couldn't delay the hauling hand. A little background is useful because it was a cue for me. The female was middle thirties, very fit, tanned, a country club golfer and tennis player. Good clothes, good jewelry, good haircut, good car, good walk. More significantly, her husband was a 2 handicap golfer, a club tournament tennis player, an excellent fly caster and angler. She wanted to be good enough to go fishing for Permit with him! And he said she had to learn the double haul. Thus, the lessons had emotional content for her. And she could fly cast well enough to have a good time in Montana and Idaho. All of the those details are part of the assessment.
I thought she was concentrating on the hauling hand to the exclusion of nearly everything else including casting. She wasn't relaxed; consternation on her face; jerky line hand movements; not good. Hard concentration forced her to hold the line in a tight fist, and that killed fluid movement. Her haul on the forward cast was digital, all on after being all off. Plainly just pointing out what she was doing wasn't going to assist her. Neither would shouting at her or jabbering about SLP or stroke length. She had to feel it and see it. She had good fly casting timing, and she could feel and was directed by the loading of the rod. My advantage was that her husband approved of me and she trusted me.
The remedy had two parts. First, we tied an overhand loop about four inches long in her fly line at the holding point. Then, instead of clenching the line in her fist, she hooked the loop on her first finger and cast a few times without hauling. She could feel the line tighten up and ease very clearly. I assured her that the change would help because she could stop thinking about the haul timing and just feel the line. "Go by feel."
The loop worked, but didn't cure all of the problem. She'd be able to clock the haul on the forward cast a few times, 2 out of 5. But 3 out of 5, she'd ignite her digital haul at the millisecond she started to cast. The second part of the remedy was to have her recover from the haul on the backcast by pushing her hauling hand all the way back to the reel and grasp it, the reel, while the loop remained on her finger. That sounds more complicated than it actually is. What we were doing was "sticking" her hand to the reel. That way when she started the forward cast, she had to "unstick" her hand, which delayed the digital haul a few milliseconds, just enough time for the rod hand to accelerate. And it worked. Then we did it slooooowly. "Annnnnnnndhaaaaul." Just after the unsticking she could feel the tension on her finger from the loop, and was able to divide her attention, partly to the line hand and partly to the rod hand. Then, she hauled with just the loop on her finger, feeling relieved and liberated. The emotional specter had dissolved. She would not be humiliated in the eyes of her uberacheiver husband. Oh yeah, I forgot to disclose that she's very competitive.
So, disrupting the compulsive concentration on the line hand was the solution called for, but the successful implementation of the remedy requires tailoring it to fit the student and the circumstances.
David D. Diaz
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[GH] Short answer : A "custom fix" which worked !
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From Gary Davison :
Gary & Group,
Your student has fairly good timing on her haul when back casting. Her haul on the forward cast is poorly matched to her casting stroke and casting arc.
Gordy this is a prime example of what most student experience when implementing a haul to their casting. Normally the haul on the back cast is the easiest for them to execute because of the basic directions in which the hands are moving "away from each other" . This is not the case when making the forward cast! Both hands are moving in the same direction on the forward cast.
This will reduce most students pull or haul on the line to maintain the line speed needed to support the forward stroke and arc of the cast.
We also need to let the student know that when we add a haul to the cast, then the amount of power and speed applied by the rod hand can be reduced. This hauling will re-enforce the rod hand so you can reduce its work load when making the cast. So with the rod hand not having to move forward as fast to maintain the line speed needed, then the hauling application will becomes much easier to implement on the forward cast.
Questions:
1. How would you go about solving this problem ? Based on what you say above poorly matched to her casting stroke and casting arc. What comes to mind first for me, is that the haul being applied during the forward stoke, may not be enough (not long enough) for the stroke and arc. This being the case I would ask her to pull on the line faster during the forward stroke, plus apply twice the amount of pull that she would think was needed to make the cast. We would then analyze together what occurred and discuss the needed haul length and speed for the cast being made.
2. Can you come up with some other ways of doing this from your "bag of teaching tricks" ? Yes I would have her make the back cast with haul and then stop the cast letting the line lay out on the ground with full extension. Being as she can make the back cast fine with a good haul to make the line fully lay out, This drill will let her feel and see what it takes to make the cast with a haul.
As the next step I would then have her make the forward cast with the haul and then stop. This way she can feel and see what the difference is on the forward cast. We would then analyze together what occurred and discuss what would be needed to make the cast using the haul..
Once we homed in on the length and speed of the haul on the forward cast with good results, I would leave the student to work and practice on their own time with this newly learned skill.
Gordy
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[GH] Short Answer from Shaun Ash......
the only method I have used I found in one of lefty's dvds which is to
haul along the grass,this breaks the haul down into to parts and puts
all the work in to hauling not casting and hauling.
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