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Walter & Group,
Here are some answers to our haul critique question. My comments prefaced by [GH].
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>From Peter Lami :
Gordy,
First, it must be said, I do not introduce a student to the double haul until after they have learned the fly casting mechanics of the basic overhead cast. In other words, the student has to have the necessary skills to perfectly match the bend in the rod to the rod arc in order to achieve a straight line path (SLP) of the rod tip. Then, I explain that the rod hand mirrors the line hand when we double haul. My demonstration couldn't be simpler. I start by saying, "Hands apart, hands together." Next, I ask the student to join me and pantomime the movements together. I give the student as much time as he/she needs to work it all out all the movements in their head before attempting to double haul with rod in hand the first time. Slack in the rod/line systems always causes a bit of trouble in the beginning. The student just needs a gentle reminder to let the tension of the fly line on the back cast to bring their "hands together" to solve the stated problem in today's quiz.
Finally, as an instructor, I never talk about the timing of the double haul with the student unless they have advanced skills and are trying to become expert distance casters. Nevertheless, here's a short answer. The haul should be delayed as long as possible. I'm sure you would agree that an in-depth discussion of this advanced double haul technique used by tournament casters is beyond the scope of this quiz.
Tight loops!
Peter Lami
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[GH] Good points. Especially on SLACK. This is often a major culprit in failed haul timing.
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>From Jerry Puckett :
1. How would you go about solving this problem ?
(Does she have a clear mental concept of haul mechanics); start with a conversation regarding mirror concept--haul hand a mirror of rod hand in stroke length, casting arc, and power applied. Then move to pantomiming with Mel's concept of "hands apart, hands together" starting with a short cast and moving, when ready, to a progressively longer cast.
Focus on haul timing with the stop, smoothness, control--relaxing and having fun with the haul. This would be a good time to talk of a balanced haul between back cast and forward.
Give a demonstration of her haul and then a good demonstration of corrective technique.
Repeat as many time as you feel helpful to the learning curve.
In the conversation on the haul discuss that the haul shortens the casting stroke making SLP
easier to maintain, the benefit of increase line speed, with work load equally divided between both hands and arms.
2. Can you come up with some other ways of doing this from your "bag of teaching tricks" ?
a- Large rubber bands connected together placed over each wrist to encourage tandem movement during the apart / together motions.
b- Another option is to let the non-dominant hand teach the dominant hand--
c- Assuming a right hand as dominant hand, with her permission, facing her, place your left hand in her right hand, and your right hand in her left hand.
d- Double Haul Dance--If you have some line dancing music (pun intended) this will aid in tempo and timing--synchronized metronomic movements. Before the music guide her through the double haul slowly and progressively and when ready letting her take the lead until she is able to teach you the double haul by feel. I refer to this as the "Double Haul Dance" and have found, when appropriate, (permission and comfort) that this has been a good teaching aid in accelerating the learning process.
Allow for sufficient practice breaks during the teaching session!
Thanks Sir Gordy and welcome back! Jerry Puckett
Gordy
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[GH]
Jerry,
I highlighted "b" in your message. Others have suggested having the student cast and learn the haul corrections with the non- dominant hand.
Theoretically, this is a usable technique. The idea is that by switching hands, you eliminate the bad habits engrained when casting with the dominant hand and "start with a clean slate". However, I have never found that to be successful when teaching the haul or correcting haul faults.
Many have noted that the most difficult task to achieve when self teaching to cast with the "other" hand is the haul. Happened as I taught myself as well. Perhaps that is the reason.
Gordy
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>From Ken Cole :
Morning, Gordy
These remedies assume 30' of line out the tip and casting as slowly as possible, so the line barely turns over. Remind the caster that the hands are sharing the work. It also assumes that arc and stroke are appropriate on the forward cast.
1. Ask her to delay the haul on the forward cast till the rod is in front of her face, eg. when the rod is past vertical and at the end of the stroke.
2. Ask her to start the haul when her wrist starts rotating and stop the haul when the wrist stops rotating.
3. Ask her to make the cast horizontally in front of her so she can watch both sides of the cast to better understand the timing of the haul.
4. For practice, ask her to pantomime these movements 10 times in front of a mirror, each time taking 10 seconds to complete each cast and haul sequence.
How's the new iMac?
Ken Cole
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[GH] Ken,
Just getting familiar with the Mac. I'm in love with it already !!
I highlighted your comment "3". THAT is my favorite.
Gordy
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>From Lefty Kreh :
Gordy---Years ago I began teaching the double haul and many other facets of fly casting on the grass. Because the line is lying on the grass the student can stop at anytime and think about what to do next. I think this is especially helpful when double hauling. I also suggest they stop at the end of each back and forward cast and study the line's flight and attitude before beginning the rest of the stroke.This allows them to examine what they have done right and wrong.
Using this method I have had many people who never knew how to double doing it in the air perfectly within 10 minutes.
Lefty
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[GH]
Lefty...
You taught me that a long time ago.
A couple of years ago, I was doing a demo to a group of Master candidates in Atlanta. A young lady was there as an observer. She didn't even know the meaning of the word, "haul". I used her as an example ..... had her come up front of the group and in about 5 minutes had her making a credible haul by starting with horizontal casting on the grass.
Works well for correcting haul timing problems because the student can see what is happening and feel it at the same time.
Gordy
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>From Mike Heritage :
I was shown a technique a while ago that works very well in most cases. I would have her cast about 30' of line, without hauling. I would ask her to make a sound or say a word like 'now' when she stopped the rod on the forward and back cast. After a few casts to get her in the groove I would ask her to make a small haul at the same time as she made the sound or word. When she has that dialed in I would increase the amount of line by three feet and get her to do it all again.
If that failed (it hasn't yet btw) I would work on the side and break the haul down to the standard down up, down up.
Mike
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From Michael Jones :
1. SHORT: Combine wrist rotation with haul.
LONG: I would break down the casting stroke to translation as the "pulling of the line and rod tip", and rotation as "the pushing of the cast at the end of the stroke" without using translation and rotation as terms. I would demonstrate the casting stroke and appropriate use of wrist placed at the end of the stroke. Then I would describe how the hauling is being done correctly on the backcast, but needs to be timed more accurately with the wrist (rotation) on the forward stroke, then let them practice with this information.
[GH] I do like the SHORT then LONG answer way of answering ... especially by MCI candidates preparing for an exam.
2. Video proof of the cast & haul timing to help pinpoint the flaw, then demonstrate the correct timing through slow motion pantomime by removing the rod, and get them to cast with only their hands. It takes a while for the muscle memory to catch up with the actual correct application on haul timing, and practiced muscle memory is the key to unleashing efficiency in this case.
Michael
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>From Jerald Lewis :
Questions:
1. How would you go about solving this problem ?
One way to help a student with hauling is to have them haul with the line on the ground and moving the rod in a horizontal plane. Make a back cast with a haul and then stop. Make a forward cast with a haul and then stop. They can move the rod slowly and see when to haul on both the back cast and forward cast. Doing it this way would help her see her good timing on the back cast and help her see when to do it on the forward cast. In both cases when casting on the ground like this, the haul occurs when the rod is about 90 degrees or straight out from the student. Once her timing is good when casting on the ground, she can start bringing it up for continuous false casting and hauling with the line in the air.
2. Can you come up with some other ways of doing this from your "bag of teaching tricks" ?
Another way would be to show her when she is hauling correctly on the back cast. Then, show her that the haul occurs at the same point on the forward cast. With an upright casting style, the haul would occur in the stroke about the time the rod is pointed straight up or slightly after.
Gordy
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>From Rene Hesse :
Hi Gordy,
Good 'timing' on the question. I just had a class with 2 average casters and I remembered what Lefty said about
learning to haul. 'The slower you learn it, the faster you learn it'
So.
Short answer; 35 ft of line out of the rod tip, casting about waist high.
Back cast and let it fall. Then ' slowly' - load the rod on the forward cast feeling the tension.
Focus on timing the haul with the 'power snap'.
Again, Again, Again.....SLOW.
Work in to different lengths of line to vary the haul to match the casting stroke and arc.
Another option is to have them place their hands on mine to get the the feel of the match.
Rene
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>From Mark Sedotti :
Hi Gordy,
Now that you're talking about hauling, I think I'll say something about how I haul.
I don't know if I've mentioned this before or not.
I haul according to feel only. I really am not conscious about when I haul or how far I haul.( I know it can be from a distance of no haul, or less than half an inch all the way out to two feet). I simply do it according to feel. Feel to (that) keep(s) the maximum amount of resistence throughout my entire casting stroke (or just about, there is just a little less at the start of the stroke). My haul simply assures that continuous even resistance that you want.
I do know that when I have this optimal (continuous) even resistance it indicates that I am 1) tracking perfectly straight, and 2) that it assures that my rod tip is moving from start to finish along that ideal (or close to it) speed of continuous acceleration that you want in the casting stroke.
Others watching me have told me also that I often haul at different times (and in different places) in the casting stroke. The haul for me is not consistent with the traditional "way" of hauling.
By the way, I haven't taught this (the way I haul) to anyone (although I have taught hauling in the traditional way many times). Haven't really been able to get to it with anyone. Always working on stuff before we would get to this.
Best Regards,
Mark
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[GH] Mark.... Interesting related comments. This is one way we learn.
Doesn't answer the question on the table, however. OK here, but MCI candidates should take note that giving an answer to a question different from the one asked would not be a good idea when actually taking an oral exam .
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From Mark Roberts:
Hi Gordy
to answer your questions firstly
1. How would you go about solving this problem ?
I would actually teach the cast much the same way as Joan Wullf does in that I would initially get the student to simply cast on a horizontal plain in between two cones with the hands together initially keeping the hands together and laying the line onto the ground. This way the student is able to both view what is happening and also is able to slow everything down and control the casts. The extra movements of the haul can then be exercise at the precise moment in the cast for the maximum effect. i.e. half way through the casting stroke. Once this has been perfected you would then get the student to cast and haul continually during casting strokes but still with the rod on a horizontal plain and as they progress you can then get them to adjust the plain of the rod until it is vertical.
The advantage of this is simply that not only are they able to see what is happening and so adjust stroke and haul length and they develop the skill it allows them to complete the cast in other casting plains.
2. Can you come up with some other ways of doing this from your "bag of teaching tricks" ?
On the odd occasion where you have someone who is entirely an audio learner and responds only to explained instruction and commands you can then get this type of student to initially cast with the hands together and explain that when you call "NOW" the line hand pulls the line downward and then comes back together to the rod hand.
In this way you get the student to respond to your command until they get comfortable with the movement of the line hand during a casting stroke. the next stage is for them to actually say the word "NOW" at the optimum moment (i.e. half way through the casting stroke)to achieve success.
Best wishes
Mark
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[GH] Mark.... You have added a new one to my "bag of tricks" !
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From Tom Scheer :
Gordyanna(?)
Your back cast with the haul is making a good loop.
your rod tip is smoothly following a straight path
your rod hand and line hand are working together, "in concert" with each other
keep your rod hand and line hand working together, and turn slightly so you can watch what is working well
see the straight path your rod tip is tracing?
see the loop that is a result? Good job!
Gordyanna
Your front loop isn't as good and smooth as your back loop, kind of "falling apart"
Your rod tip isn't following a smooth, always faster straight path to the stop
Your rod and line hand are not working together on your forward cast as they do so nicely on your back cast.
Match the rod hand and line hand action on the forward cast just like you do on the back cast. Feel it.
Very good! When you use your rod and line hand "in concert", like you have been doing on your back cast, your loop
is good
Gordyanna(?).... kindly provided a model to mirror and copy when she accomplished a good result on her back cast.
The (double?) six step may yield a result pleasing to both parties since she herself had an engram ( muscle memory) model to copy that was successful .
In absence of success with the 6 step, I would go to the grass( as per Soon Lee and others), breaking the task into digestible portions, then combining them into the whole of the cast.
Absent Gordyanna being an engineer ( when calm explanation of the principles can help understanding and build trust I would leave such discussion for a time when it is invited.
As much as I find proprioceptive learning, getting on the rod with them, using FEW guiding words(Stop, Accelerate, Smooth) effective, for this situation I would choose the above first, pantomime and mirror image following..
Absent results, I know where to find MCI and casting BOG help.
Tom
PS Thank you Dr Gordon Hill (aka Gordyanna) .
I
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[GH] David Diaz gave me this question many months ago. He reminded me of that this morning.
He had a student with exactly that problem. Solved it.
We'll have his solution soon !
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