Curves - hooks

Walter & Group...

From Peter Morse (I highlighted one sentence of his message in red italics )    G.  :

Gordon, My first step in teaching curve casts is a demonstration 
(overhead) of a normal powered cast, an underpowered cast then an 
overpowered cast (tuck cast). I get the students to understand these 
three and to practise them. The the next stage is learning the 
difference between casting with the tip and casting deeper in the rod. 

 An overpowered cast to the side with the tip gives a hook and an 
overpowered cast to the side gives a deeper rounder curve.

Then go 
practise by casting around something.

Peter Morse

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Peter....  I highlighted the part of your question which helps answer the question of how you would teach this young lady how to make the hook casts once she has learned the curves.

Now:  Are you intending to say that an overpowered cast to the side with the tip gives a hook and an overpowered cast to the side with a deeper rod bend gives a deeper rounder curve ?

If so, I'd agree.

Gordy

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Lewis Hinks comes in with a different method of making curve casts:

Hook Cast or hook curve: During the 'speed up and stop' or 'power snap' phase of the cast rotate the wrist in the direction you wish to make the curve. EG. Right to left for a left hook and left to right for a right hook, (not the boxing punch).

 

To really exaggerate the curve, you can rotate the wrist during the backcast in the opposite direction of the planned cast, 'cocking the wrist' to give you a greater rotation of the wrist making a more pronounced curve.

 

Lewis

 

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Lewis ... Yes.  I think you and I may have gone over that trick when we cast together in Nova Scotia.

 

Rotating your wrist in the opposite direction on the back cast than that which you intend for your forward cast does have the effect of exaggerating the curve because you have much more of a twist on the delivery.

 

HOWEVER:  That doesn't always give the caster a sharp hook layout.  You still need to do something else to achieve that.

 

Gordy

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From Pete Greenan:

 

On the subject of curve casts.....  Most of my students understand that the line will go in the direction of the rod when it stops.  To help them understand how that works with a curve cast I often use the analogy of a curve ball thrown by a baseball pitcher.  A slight twist of the hand in the direction of the desired curve usually solves the mystery.  How much twist and when during the forward stroke it occurs is a matter of experiment for each student.  It is easy to demonstrate this slowly.  That make it easier to understand. (I think)(G).

I know this is not far from the "party line", but it seems to work for me

 

Pete Greenan/Sarasota

 

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Pete... OK.  You have taught that to the young lady in question.  She gets it and now can make curve casts.  Now, however, she wants you to teach her how to make a right angle HOOK CAST.  

 

How do you proceed from here ?

 

Gordy

 

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From Rene Hesse:

 

Great question on how do you teach the 'HOOK CAST'

 

It raised the question of the 'CURVE CAST' and teaching compared to the HOOK.

 

I hadn't made that clear before when stating 'over powered' curve.  The hand/arm motions are very different.

 

Short answer; Hook cast is higher velocity,upward climbing rod stroke off 45 degrees to the side that ends up with a hard stop and the rod almost vertical. 

                    Compared to a 'curve' cast that has a vertical rod plane that is a forward cast ending in a side sweep of the hand (L-shaped- a few inches)to either side.

 

I write this as a lesson to my self to be more clear in descriptions

 

Rene

 

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Rene...   Yes.  That will work.

 

It is true, however, that we can make both curve casts and right angle hook casts without changing the orientation of the rod.  Both can be made, for example, using an overpowered side arm cast with a horizontal rod plane.

 

The main differences between the two casts are these :

 

1.) Higher rod tip speed for the hook cast.

 

2.) An exaggerated STOP for the hook cast.  (With all due respect for the controversy over the "stop", I feel that we can get the rod tip to flex more before and during counterflex by doing this. ) That is followed by a greater rebound of the rod tip.  This combination yields a dramatic hook layout.

 

 I have shown some of you a very dramatic layout hook cast with a long leader/line along a mangrove shoreline distal to (below) a right angle hook.  I then place the rod tip in the water and make a retrieve.  The fly travels along the shore line for a long way before coming back to me as I strip.

 

This is done as described, above.  Added to this is a purposeful,  brief movement of the rod tip in the direction of rebound.  It has to be timed perfectly.

 

Technically, since this employs a move made after the cast, it is a cast combined with a mend.  I place it in a group which I like to call, "cast-mends".  Since the mend is made during rebound, it is so close to the conclusion of the cast, that it is hard to discern that the caster actually did that.

 

To make the sharp hook layout using the wrist twist method with a more vertical rod orientation, is much more difficult because you need a lightning fast wrist twist followed by a twist in the opposite direction both made so close to the stop that you would need high speed video to determine that the twist in the direction you wish the fly to go is made just prior to the stop and the twist in the opposite direction is made after the stop.   To the caster, it feels that it is all done "at the stop".

 

To place the fly in the direction opposite that of the casting arm is not so difficult, because we all can inwardly rotate our wrists with great speed.  To place the fly in the opposite dirction is much more difficult, because its much harder to outwardly twist the wrist rapidly.

 

 

 

Neat stuff !!!

 

Gordy