Roll cast / D-loop question

Here are a couple points I have found to be very important in teaching the Roll Cast…(probably one of my favorite casts even in the salt)

Tracking …. Lots of students will set up by swinging the rod around the outside setting the D loop a rod’s length away … and then move the rod tip to a completely different plane to get set up for the forward cast( usually very close in) …. If you don’t think it makes a difference try making rolls this way and then cast with the rod tip traveling directly over the anchored portion of the line…. This is even more obvious in Spey casts…!

Translation…. Really important to have a translation prior to rotation… this tensions the system and is much more efficient.

Arm Alignment…. Many will form a D loop … get set up for the forward cast ….and if you FREEZE right there you should watch for a forearm position( a twisted wrist) that is going to lead with the inner forearm… kind of a slapping stroke … not going to be very powerful…. Get the elbow, arm, wrist and rod all aligned before making the cast…..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jerry, That definition would also apply to other casts such as the bow & arrow casts, nes't pas ? G.

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Craig Buckbee challenges the concept of change of rod plane when roll casting:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now to that other question. Is there “power” in a D loop or is there even any merit in trying making a D loop quicker than is absolutely necessary?

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Pat Blackwell, in answer:

Hi Gordy,

Regarding Ally's question: I believe the weight and speed of the line form the D loop, starting to load the rod, much the same as the back cast in an overhead cast. If this is considered power, then yes we have power in the D loop. I don't consider this power as such, therefore the D loop should not be formed any quicker than necessary.

If we over accelerate the forming of the D loop; we may very well lose our timing and control, ultimately making a poor cast at best.

Regards,

Pat Blackwell

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Gary Davison:

Gordy, I really like what Ally has provided below.

To answer the question.

Is there “power” in a D loop or is there even any merit in trying making a D loop quicker than is absolutely necessary?

I equate power of the D loop, to the size not speed. In a Spey Cast, power or ( line mass) is obtained through the size of the D loop or V loop you can achieve. Making it quicker is not the key. The Key or point is what speed is necessary to optimize the size of your D or V Loop. If you have ever watched Spey Casting it is a smooth and flowing movement with constant increasing acceleration of speed to the staging of the line for D or V loop formation. They are very smooth and almost ballet like movements in a manner of speaking.

The main rule for any Roll Cast is that the larger line turns over the smaller line. Our main goal in Spey Casting is to get as much of the larger line in the air as possible to cast as much of the smaller line out the rod tip, plus the smaller running line staged to shoot.

The great thing about all of the above is that you have to synchronize this with your Anchor. It is an incredible cast!

All the best

Gary Davison

Gulf Coast Spey

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Gordy,

I was hoping the some of the “power brokers” would have responded first but Al Crise has nailed the “power” issue. The key to great roll casting (in its widest generic sense) is the form of the D loop, not the speed at which it is made. Just to clear a point from Al’s message re change of direction of travel, I think he referring to the rod tip from the D loop (the tangent to the curve) and not the cast direction with which the D loop itself should have been previously aligned. Another point is that if a casting stroke is an acceleration the rod should never be without load, during a roll cast and especially in a dynamic roll cast it may appear that a stop occurs during the loop formation, if it does it’s a mistake the rod should turn to form the D loop and retain control of the line. The turn is of course a change of velocity, in other words an acceleration.

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

In case some of you missed it, Al's answer is repeated, below :

Al Crise sends an answer to Ally Gowans question:

Howdy Gordy and Ally

Does the D loop have "power"?

The "D" Loop is non-static Mass. That will load the rod, when the rod is pulled away from this mass. If we looked at the Top of the "D" is much like the Back cast rod leg of the overhead cast. The Sharper we can make the top of the "D" back wards the better the load. The bigger we can make the "D" the more line (mass) we have behind the rod, to pull on. What we are doing is 'Changing the Direction of travel'. This change of direction is one of Newton's laws "A body in motion will remain in motion unless acted on by another force". The Energy needed to change the direction of the flowing line in the "D" loop is Rod Loading.

So is there 'Power'?. There is resistance to directional change. Making it faster in the wrong direction will add load but requires more force that is necessary if the D motion is controlled to give the best performance to the rod load and cast to be made Therefore less force and an easy cast can be made.

old Cowboy way of lookin' at the power.

ol AL

Allen R. Crise