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  • Slide loading / Center pinning / Shoulder problems



    Walter & Group...

    Michael Jones on SLIDE LOADING:

    On 1/2/09, michael Jones <mdjonesdog@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
    > GH:
    > Happy New Year to you, and sorry about Mr. Shark; thousands and thousands of
    > years of evolution, then in a minute: the flats skiff was invented.  Please
    > be careful out there!
    >
    > I remember listening to several Masters discussing 'slide loading' at the
    > Master's Continuing Educational Workshop in Marlboro several years back.  I
    > distinctly remember several impressions that have not left me through my
    > analysis of this back and forth discussion topic of recent:
    >
    > 1.  No clear definition by any, and an overuse of the term 'IT', where a
    > description/definition is needed.
    > 2.  No clear or proven advantage over accepted/proper FFF casting & hauling
    > technique.
    > 3.  If forward movement of the rod hand is added prior to the previous cast
    > unrolling, it may make one feel like they are achieving something, but I am
    > very interested to hear a compelling explanation of what that is?  My
    > impression is that slide loading is simply the double haul move completed
    > simultaneously with 'too-early' translation or rotational creep, or both.
    > Agree?
    >
    > In spirit of conversation, please consider my questions and answers to
    > appreciate or correct my stance and understanding of 'slide loading'.  I
    > think both of these questions help me file the past dialogue to a sharper
    > point.  My answers follow in blue:
    >
    > 1.  Does slide loading describe a casting style or a casting flaw (short
    > answer & why)?
    > When considered as a consistent style: a casting flaw, because it applies
    > directional rod-hand and/or rod tip movement without any real measurable rod
    > loading, which is inefficient
    .
    > 2.  Can 'slide loading' work to improve a cast (short answer & how)?
    > Yes, to recover line back into the rod when line is dropped by the line
    > hand, inadvertently, during a shoot.

    >
    >
    > Michael
    > Maine

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    On CENTER PINNING by Walter Simberski :-

    Hi Gordy,
     
    Center pinning is a technique that is just getting know in this area of the country. I was actually thinking of it
    while I wrote about European nymphing.
     
    I can give a bit of info to get things started.
     
    As Rick points out the rods used in center pinning are very long 13' - 15' being common. The reel resembles a fly
    reel but has no drag and ideally has no resistance so that the current pulling on the indicator/weight/nymph combination
    will pull line off the reel easily. This ensures the nymph can dead drift while eliminating slack in the overall system.
     
    The line can be mono or braided line.
     
    The strike indicator is designed to be very sensitive. Between the strike indicator and nymph split shot will be placed at
    regular intervals so that the line between the indicator and the nymph is as straight as possible.
     
    As you can imagine casting takes practise. Some methods of placing the indicator/weight/nymph combination include:
    - using the long rod to place the terminal tackle in a seam and then just let if drift down stream
    - peel of some line, cast, allow the line to shoot
    - begin the cast and then spin the reel with the line hand just prior to ending the casting motion. If done properly the
      spinning reel will feed line into the cast as the terminal tackle pulls it out.
    - use the line hand to hold the line such that it comes off the reel perpendicular to the rod. (Another design aspect of
      the centerpin reel is that one side is open. Pulling line off the reel on the open side is similar to the way line comes
      off of an open face spinning reel.) Pinch the line with the line hand, cast with the rod hand, release the line to an 'O'
      ring formed with the line hand.
     
    Skilled casters can get very long casts with this equipment.
     
    The whole idea behind centerpinning is to get very long dead drifts while keeping the nymph on the bottom and keeping
    slack to a minimum. The minimum of slack makes it possible to detect very sensitive takes and set the hook.
     
    HNY
     
    Walter
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Walter & Rick :   Is the Center pin reel anything like the open faced ALVEY reel used in Australia ?  That one is turned in line with the rod for retrieving and then can be turned with the spool at 90 degrees to the rod like a spinning reel to let line out with minimum restriction.
     
    Gordy
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     

    More info on shoulder injuries from David Leger:

    Gordy,

    I have 2 cents to throw at the shoulder injury issue.

     

    My 20 plus years experience dealing with chronic shoulder injuries as a chiropractor has revealed one common denominator; that there is an underlying (usually longstanding) resting imbalance of the rotator cuff musculature due to imbalanced training/activity.  It’s the IMBALANCE that is the problem not the activity!

     

    I will try to explain this in simple terms so we as castors can heal ourselves and as teachers, can help our students because it’s not “rocket science”.

     

    There are four main motions of the upper arm at the shoulder: forward, backward, up and down. These are combined for the complex variations.

     

    So what happens usually is one of the groups of muscles that control the above motions becomes stronger than those that oppose it due to our repetitive activity. For example, someone likes to do push-ups (which works the pecs) and doesn’t equally work the upper back muscles (a rowing motion) will result in the shoulder being pulled continuously slightly forward out of its neutral position which then causes all motions to be high-stress to the shoulder tendons. Or if we do pull ups and don’t equally do deltoid raises the bigger latissimus muscle will overpower the deltoid.

     

    Once the rotator cuff muscles are out of balance any activity, casting or other-wise will now potentially cause excessive wear and lead to injury. Jogging is easy unless one has cast on their knee then just walking may be imposable.

     

    The solution is to modify the training in such a way to restore balance and the neutral shoulder position.

     

    For most people the chest muscles and the lats. are dominant because they are much bigger and more often trained. The upper back muscles that pull the shoulder blades together and the deltoid that raises the are arm are invariably relatively weaker and neglected.

     

    The rehabilitation mantra is Work the Weak and Stretch the Strong.

     

    Practically this means finding which motion is strong and stretching those muscles (don’t exercise them at all) and work the opposite muscles hard for two weeks. Almost always this means doing deltoid raises and seated rows and no push-ups, bench press, pull-ups or dips.

     

    From a casting stand point the rod-hand shoulder gets a rather balanced workout with the normal casting stroke, even better with an open “Leftly style”. Both the front and back shoulder muscles are worked equally as the line/rod resistance is equal on the forward and backcast.

     

    It’s the hauling shoulder especially with vigorous shooting that the pull down muscles become dominant and the opposers will need to be worked to avoid an imbalance.

     

    With most gradual-onset shoulder problems an imbalanced activity/exercise routine is to blame and if we just work the opposite muscles it will resolve.

     

    Hopefully this will be practical and helpful.

    Dave Leger 

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Dave ....  This may explain why casters who use different styles of casting as they fish (depending upon the fishing circumstances ) are less likely to get these shoulder problems.

    Gordy  

    From: Gordy Hill [mailto:masterstudygroup@xxxxxxxxxxx]