"Slides" / timing "Forward drift" vs. Followthrough

Walter & Group...

From Gary Eaton:

Gordy,

 

Watching this from the sidelines and recalling a similar discussion on sexyloops previously - some random comments-

Yes, this has gone full-circle and probably does not represent essential substance, agreeing with Bruce.

It does have some bio mechanical interest and I tend to re-format Dr. Leger's comments: There is indeed a re-positioning, as the late Tom White described it, to provide a more comfortable but, not necessarily stronger, start to the translation forward.

 

Tom taught me that main advantages were

1- more control of the tip to keep it in-line with the target direction,

2- longer "pull-through" position

3- more extended body position to enhance potential haul

4- lean-back to include trunk or anterior core muscles in long forward stroke ----

All of these could compensate for the stroke and arc length lost by sliding the guides opposite the direction of the unrolling loop "like a pulley along a wire".  Likewise, a good drift may "slide the guides like pulleys along a wire" in the direction of the unrolling loop. 

 

The positional advantages remain whether early forward movement loads or does not load the rod. Some may see this position as an advantage and ascribe slide-load to it. Slide-load may offer the advantage of not having to be as precise in the timing of the rotation and the haul as a wee bit of rotation converts the slide load into an angular load, or as you have named it "pre-load". (I seem to recall Joan Wulff, or someone, having coined the term "pre-load' and wonder if this is going to be a point of confusion?)

 

Forward motion opposite the direction of the unrolling loop can be tolerated without a whip crack if not too severe and not too early. To the extent this movement reduces the amount of rod leg available to the loop, it may act like a check-haul or triple-haul, to accelerate turn-over of the loop in the back cast. If this happens, it may coincidentally provide timing advantages by having forward movement coincide with the turnover. This would eliminate slack AND reduce the tendency of the straightened line to fall with gravity waiting for tension to be applied.

 

While these are not exactly substance, they may be applied to advantage compensating for a host of pitfalls, or accentuate them, if not precise enough. I doubt anyone really slides forward unless it is a really long cast or hauling is involved. In the shorter casts, I would definitely consider the same move, with any rotation, the fault of "creep" because rotation shortens the casting arc. (on a short cast check haul to increase loop turnover will likely cause a crack)

 

Jay's video is fine input. In each case the caster achieves tremendous drag benefit just in his reel movement forward from the waist flexion. Net effect might be increasing turnover of the loop (can't see the loop in video) and narrower window for premature haul as the loading is pre-instituted.

 

My comments attend closely Lou Bruno and Bruce Richard's observations and account for some of Dr. Leger's observations. We know what the move is, now we need to think about what effect that delayed move may have on the line & loop. I suggest it may speed turnover and simplify haul timing. I can also see potential advantages in casters with difficulty reaching back to inititiate the haul.

 

Thanks,

 

 Gary Eaton

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From Mac Brown :

 

Hi Gordy and group,

     Happy new year to everyone! I have enjoyed the threads on slide. I agree with Paul in that the loading should be dropped. Earlier in the threads it was mentioned to be a style type of thing for experts.

 

       Many threads keep referring to loading, etc...  I think if an elite caster does a lay back in the vertical plane as to point the rod all the way back directly at the unfurling line-like Stu Apte style-feet together, shoulders squared up perpendicular to the direction of the cast. One can easily perform this sitting at the computer. Lay the rod hand all the way back-up and over for the back cast. Now keeping the shoulders squared up (not to rotate them) it becomes very awkward to get the haul hand in position for translation to occur. Most people cannot get both hands back together because of shoulder constraints. If we slide the two back together at the same time-nothing is lost or gained as to load. The slide if performed correctly gets the haul/rod hand ready for the explosive hauling on the front delivery. It is not some magic trick to add or take away load to the line, simply a setup move. The further and faster the two hands can begin the haul on the delivery the greater the distance (other things being correct like tracking, timing, etc.. --which can be much to assume).

 

    If the rod hand simply translates back forward to meet the haul hand, I think the same results can be attained on the given distance.  So the difference in the slide or no slide technique seem to me in that it is a timing game of rather to delay movement for the forward cast. Rod hand stays laid back while haul hand goes back as far as is comfortable or dynamically slide the two hands while the loop is unfurling. I think the end results would be the same in the end, the difference is in the timing of how the caster bides the time in how this all occurs.

 

    Hope this makes some sense. I have not seen much on timing during the thread and I think that is what is really going on the most-difference in timing (style as you mentioned).

 

Cheers, Mac

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Mac ...   As you have seen, I agree with you and Paul on leaving the word "load" apart from the slide.

 

Timing is a very important issue.  These moves have to be timed to that of the unrolling back cast loop.  Earlier with short casts while carrying less line, later with longer casts while carrying more line.

 

 

Gordy

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From Craig Buckbee:

 

gordy,

 jokingly, i have been using the term "forward drift" instead of "slide loading".
maybe not so funny.

craig

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Craig...  

 

  Joke... perhaps.   However I do recognize FORWARD DRIFT.  Here is the way I like to look at it:

 

DRIFT:  Movement of the rod which results in increase of the available stroke length and rod arc for the following cast. *

 

This is usually accomplished after the STOP and in the direction of an unrolling or newly unrolled loop.  We generally  think of this as being performed on the back cast.  When done on the forward cast, Joan Wulff calls it "FOLLOWTHROUGH".

 

I see it as FORWARD DRIFT if it is done on the forward cast when false casting since this move increases the available stroke length and rod arc for the following back cast.

 

I like to use Joan's term of FOLLOWTHROUGH when it is performed on the delivery cast.  (On this delivery cast, there is no following cast for which the stroke length and rod arc can be increased !)

 

FOLLOWTHROUGH:  Movement of the rod tip in the direction of an unrolling loop on a delivery cast. *

 

 

*Caveat:  These "definitions" are the ones I'm using.  We have not ratified them with our Glossary Committee deliberations.

 

Gordy