STOP / Question for Lefty

Howdy Gordy and Gang

Walter gave this on the STOP

Stop - I view adding stop as a sixth essential unnecessary because the stop results by applying the
          correct amount of power at the correct time. When the rod is in motion I stop it by applying
          power in the direction opposite its current motion. I feel that it's important for students to understand
          that the stop is not an instantaneous event - it requires a smooth application of power just as the
          casting stroke leading up to the stop does.

I can see me telling my student "After you get the rod going fast, just slow it down and go fast in the other direction.".

"Now do this smoothly so as to not snap the fly off. Did you hear the stop? Well that was too fast a change of direction."

Sorry Walter I have them "Stop the rod". This is the most efficient way to transfer the energy to the line/loop formation for my students to understand

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Al & Walter: I like the concept of Bill Gammel's essential: POWER MUST BE APPLIED IN THE CORRECT AMOUNT AND AT THE CORRECT TIME. To this I add Floyd Franke's three caveats: 1. TENSION 2. ACCELERATION & 3. STOP.

We've already discussed the fact that a true "brick wall stop" will throw shock waves into the rod tip and ruin a cast. Not a real world event. As our physicists actually study what happens with a good crisp stop done by elite casters, they find a well controlled negative acceleration to zero motion following which the rod tip reaches RSP (the rod straight position). Even this is not a stop of the rod tip, which then goes smoothly into counterflex. After this, a momentary rod tip stop, and rebound.

Walter.... As you "reverse gear" your arm movement, you are using your arm muscles to do exactly this. If you exagerate this movement, you produce a "kick" which results in the well known tuck cast. Great for tucking the fly down quickly to have it plunge into pocket water for rapid sinking of a weighted nymph.

No matter how we slice it, however, teaching the student to make the best stop which he can achieve usually does the trick.

Teaching him all the theory and physics behind this movement would be cartain to confuse and confound !

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Dan Storaska has a question for Lefty Kreh :

Gordy,

I have a question for Lefty Kreh if you wouldn't mind passing it on to him. I don't know how much he likes to divulge his email address to 'strangers' so if he would like to respond directly, feel free to pass mine along to him: dwstoraska@xxxxxxxxx.

I have read both his Fly Fishing in Saltwater and Ed Jaworowski's The Cast, and both describe what I'll call a sidearm style of casting with the 'elbow on the shelf' as you've been discussing over the last few weeks. I find that when I practice this style of casting, it does indeed seem more natural and comfortable to me personally, and I can also see why they would recommend this style from a point of view of minimizing rotator cuff stress since the movement involves a more lateral movement of the humerus from the shoulder socket as opposed to rotational movement. However, I find 2 problems when casting this way. The first is that because of the lateral nature of the movement of the fly rod, the leader tends to kick out to the left at the end of the casting stroke, just as a horizontal cast normally would. How does one avoid this other then to stall (or creep) the stroke to kill energy which causes the kick out? Second, for some reason, I don't seem to acheive a nice pick up off the water using this method of casting. A more traditional 'Joan Wulff' style of picking up by raising the elbow by using the shoulder produces a much better backcast of the initial pickup. I'm wondering if he might have any recommendations for me.

Thank you,

Dan

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----- Original Message -----

From: Bernard Kreh

To: Gordon Hill

Cc: dwstoraska@xxxxxxxxx

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:58 PM

Subject: Re: Question for Lefty

Hello Gordy--Dan--

First--I don't mind answering e-mails--when I can.

I'd like to answer the second question first.

When you lift the rod as Joanie does lifting the line from the water ceases once the rod passes a vertical attitude--no more line can be lifted from the water.

IF YOU START THE SIDE CAST WITH THE ROD TIP ALMOST IN THE WATER IN FRONT you can lift considerable more line from the water so long as the elbow stays on the shelf--and the ROD HAND CONTINUES TO RISE (not just go back but rise). You can lift from the surface considerably more line than with the vertical method. So long as the rod hand is rising as it travels well behind you--it continues lifting the line. Line lifting stops or is no longer possible when the rod tip stops rising. As soon as the rod tip passes vertically--the tip begins to descend.

Dan I am not sure I understood your first question. If you are saying that your leader loop tends to open or enlarge when you make the side cast with the elbow on the shelf then you did not stop the rod hand TRAVELING DIRECTLY AWAY FROM THE TARGET. Instead you either bent your wrist back a little or caused the rod tip to "duck" slightly away at the final moment of the backcast. This would "pull open" the loop If the rod hand stops going straight away for the target the line/leader loop stays tight. To aid students I often tell the to think of their thumbnail when making a backcast. Concentrate so the the thumbnail travels directly away from the target during the acceleration AND THE STOP--incredibly tight loops often result from student using this idea.

If I failed to answer the questions it is because I misunderstood what was written and would be happy to discuss this further.

All the Best,

Lefty

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Comment: I agree. The trick I find to make sure I am picking up and making my back cast 180 degrees away from the target is to imagine another target behind me and make my back cast directly too it.

I have the student pick an object in the sky ..... say a particular cloud or the top of a tree which is in line with the forward target and practice unrolling the backcast loop directly at that as he/she looks back to critique its direction.

Another trick I've found, is to no only be certain to keep the elbow on the imaginary shelf, but while on that shelf, to be sure to have the tip of the elbow travel in a straight line.... not curved around to the side. Some students respond to the idea of bringing the elbow back and toward the ribs as it passes the body and they back out enough as it goes past the body so that it really does draw a straight line on this shelf.

I can still control the plane of my unrolling loop, though I can still have a very efficient cast even if the loop itself is not in the vertical plane.

Lefty has pointed out to me that casting with his method is much easier for the student who has learned the style early in the game. Much more difficult for the caster who has fished for many years with either one of the vertical rod plane styles or the "elbow -out-to-the-side" style often used by float tubers. This is another reason why it may well be a good idea to have students introduced to different styles to solve different casting problems before there is too much water over the dam.

Gordy