Deep dead drifts / Line-rod ratings

Gordy,

One of my Instructors Workshop students, Bob Pauli, is a died in the wool DH Steelheader. He has been involved with the Jimmy Green Spey-O-Rama at the Golden Gate Casting Club for the past few years and is an engineer to boot. He and his partner Tom Keelin developed a system for determining line depth in relation to line diameter and water flow rate. They co-authored an article in the Dec 2007 issue of Fly Fisherman Magazine. Bob and Tom have a very informative website including the initial research, tools to help calculate fly depth and a copy of the magazine article.

I would recommend this to anyone who uses sinking lines. I have used the information to confirm sink depths for fishing integrated heads in Baja.

Guy Manning

FFF Master Certified Casting Instructor

Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo Group

www.castflys.net

If knew exactly what Rick and Marty had a problem with I might be able to help more. Here we use lots of shooting heads at times with two handed rods and we sometimes have to cast about 180 ft and get down deep and quick. The heaviest line I use is possibly an 850gr Deep Water Express but there are lots of situations where you need to fish deep but can’t use such a fast sinking line (we use lines from floating to type 7 sinking) and DWE heads. Typically we use lines around 54 to 60 ft long ideally around 700gr attached to monofilament backing, 30lb BS Amnesia, Stren or Memory Free Mono (now unobtainable except from http://www.tacklebargains.co.uk/ ) and there are a variety of ways to use slower sinking lines and get the depth before tightening and starting the fly swimming (swimming - a great description from my pal Harry Lemire) including an upstream reach mend, take a couple of steps after casting and a vertical reach mend. The Rio type 8 tips are great for use in conjunction with heads because they prevent the usual “belly down” swing of a sinking line which often causes snagging on the bottom.

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

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Ally,

In the salt estuaries as well as fishing with deep dead drifts in very deep "buckets" at the head of the pool in Alaska as well as in Norway on the Laerdal, we had success with 700 gr and 800 gr heads attached to mono. We used 30 lb. Amnesia. Also had some success with flat (oval) mono behind the heads ..... a product called "Cortland Cobra". Not sure if this is still marketed.

We were not Spey casting, rather straight line overhead casting using shooting head techniques.

Perhaps Rick and Marty can further clarify the problem for you.

Gordy

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From John Tarr (On fly rods marketed to match a specific line) :-

Gordy,

    Being in the business, I can attest that the fly rods he is talking about are marketed with a line specifically for the rod - largemouth, smallmouth, bream. However, if you contact Sage, you can obtain the grain weight of these lines and match them with a line of choice. For instance, the largemouth line is approximately equal to a 10-weight; some people will say 11-weight. You can cast the rod with a standard 10-weight line and it does just as well. The same can be said with the others (smallmouth - 7-weight, bream - 5-weight).

     When I asked about the purpose behind the new marketing scheme, it was just that. They wanted to sell a rod and matching line, in an effort to reduce confusion on new prospective customers - walk into my shop and you will find a wall of fly lines. It is easy to overload peoples' senses - it is also easy to scare them. It is marketed much the same way the S.A. "System" systems were; with the exception that it is species targeted instead of line-weight targeted.

     The marketing scheme has worked a little. However, I have also seen it backfire. There are those people that see the label largemouth and will not buy the rod because they are fishing snook, tarpon, etc. Despite educating them, they are still hesitant and many have to be told that they can use other lines.

     Hope this helps a little - again, just my observations and what I've been told.

John

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Ally Gowans with some good general advice on matching fly lines to rods:-

Hi Gordy,

The line and rod rating debate will never be solved. Even if every line made to an AFTM number was identical the problem would remain. There is a saying “two fishermen – three opinions” and rod ratings are just opinions of someone, there is no science to the rating of rods, they are just recommendations and even if a manufacturer designs a rod and line that in his opinion are the perfect combination, someone, somewhere will disagree. Hence the best advice before buying a buy a line is to try it first.

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

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COMMENT: Let me add that many good modern rods will perform well with a range of line designations. This is especially true for the expert caster.

For this expert, then, it becomes a matter of what line does the job best for his rod under the particular fishing conditions at hand.

The beginner, however, is at a real disadvantage because he doesn't have the faintest idea of what line will work best .... so he must either go by "the numbers" or, better yet, gain the advice of his instructor.

Gordy

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