RE: Struggling with timing - another helpful idea

Title: Message

Walter...

 

If you go to a softer rod, it will be slower and that will change your timing a bit.

 

It would be nice if we could have the option of having rods which are slower and lighter !

 

See you at Whitefish.

 

Gordy

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 2:22 PM
To: Gordon Hill
Subject: Re: Struggling with timing - another helpful idea

Gordy

 

My usual rod/line combo is a 6 weight XP with matching XXD line. I've been experimenting with a

5 weight XP and 7 weight XXD line. I'm finding that for the shoulder and timing issues this has a

double benefit. The lighter rod is a bit easier on the shoulder and the heavier line slows down the

rod which helps with my slow timing.

 

I realize that the timing of the cast is not changing but I feel the rod beginning to load a bit

sooner and the extra bend in the rod helps to reduce the amount of sag that forms.

 

I could have just switched to a slower action rod to begin with but slower action typically means

lower modulus graphite which means extra rod weight. Extra weight in the rod means extra

stress on the shoulder and also reduces the feel I have for the rod loading.

 

See you at the Conclave!

 

Walter

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gordon Hill

To: 'Walter Simbirski'

Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 1:04 PM

Subject: RE: Struggling with timing

Walter...

 

It does, indeed !

 

Gordy

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 3:18 PM
To: Gordon Hill
Subject: Re: Struggling with timing

Gordy,

 

I should have said "shifting" rather than "changing" in that "shifting" would imply a gradual change.

 

Assuming that body torque is an answer in my case I expect that there is probably a sweet

spot that works well for me and also feels natural. I also expect that the sweet spot may change

over time due to a number of factors (age, injury, exercise, etc.).

 

I think most of us will spend the majority of our time casting in our personal comfort zone although

advanced casters will practice and be able to cast well in a variety of styles.

 

This discussion certainly make me think about the advantages and disadvantages associated

with individual styles.

 

Walter

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gordon Hill

To: 'Walter Simbirski'

Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 5:52 AM

Subject: RE: Struggling with timing

Walter...

 

NO ..... it does not mean you have to change style dramatically .... just a bit more off-vertical than you usually do it.

 

Lefty has studied this intensely, partly because of his own age problems and his own injuries ..... but also because he has taken note of the problems his students have had over the years with torn rotator cuff shoulders, elbow trauma, repetitive motion problems, etc.

 

(He's found as I have, that the older we get, the older our students seem to get ...... same with my orthopaedic patients !)

 

I've worked with Lefty on these problems for a little over 2 years.

 

I have found (as have others) that when working through a painful joint problem, it is actually best to change styles a bit as you cast rather than sticking to any one style.  (In theory, when you do that, you change the relative use and stress to any one group of muscles.)

 

Remember:   There is only one cast in the MCCI exam which should tax your joints.   That's the 85' distance task.

 

Gordy

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 12:36 PM
To: Gordon Hill
Subject: Re: Struggling with timing

Gordy,

 

Yes, I'm very encouraged by the improvement! For a while I was afraid I might have to give up

teaching entirely. Now it's beginning to look more like a bump in the road on the way to earning

my MCI.

 

I never considered body torque! Thanks for the suggestion! It will mean changing to "Lefty" style

casting to make it work. I'll let you know how it goes after I've given it a fair trail.

 

Thanks again!

 

Walter

----- Original Message -----

From: Gordon Hill

To: 'Walter Simbirski'

Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:30 AM

Subject: RE: Struggling with timing

Walter....

 

Actually sounds as though you are improving !

 

I would NOT rush to achieving distance as yet.

 

"Ticking" is often a problem with timing, often born of the caster carrying more line than can be easily handled.  When it happens on the back cast, it is often because of starting the forward cast a fraction of a second late.  That fits well with a slow-to-react shoulder musculature.   You have probably already made the correct analysis !

 

Lefty Kreh has been teaching to add more body torque for these problems.  I think he may be correct.

 

Gordy

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 1:32 PM
To: Gordy Hill
Subject: Struggling with timing

Gordy,

 

I'm at the point where I can practice casting for about 20-30 minutes each day and I

actually have days that are 99% pain free.

 

My casting is coming along well except in one area that I find to be a constant struggle.

My timing is slow. It seems to be okay when carrying shorter lengths of line (under

30 feet) and with a lot of concentration I can carry up to 45 or 50 feet of line. Beyond that

the line unrolls nicely but by the time I've started my cast in the reverse direction the line

has developed a sag. Somewhere around 55-60 feet the line often ticks the ground on my

forward and backcast. As I say, the line is unrolling nicely, is horizontal to the ground when it

completely straightens, and the end is 8-12 feet above the ground depending on my rod plane.

At that point my shoulder, while not in pain, just seems to be slow to react and the line starts its sag.

 

I can only guess that as I increase my arc/stroke length I am adding more shoulder movement

to the mix and the more I add the worse the problem gets because the shoulder is slower than

I'm used to. I've tried to start the reverse cast a bit early, and this helps up to a point, but as

I increase line carry I start to creep. I've also tried to substitute more body motion (rocking) to

compensate for the shoulder and this also helps to a certain degree but I still find it very difficult

to carry more than 55-60 feet of line. When I double haul I can carry perhaps another 10 feet

of line before the slow shoulder comes in to play. Putting everything together - hauling,

rocking, and telling myself to start the reverse cast early I can carry perhaps 60 feet of line

consistently. Prior to the shoulder injury I was able to carry roughly 70 feet without hauling.

 

Any advice on how to work on this?

 

Thanks

 

Walter