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  • Spey answers / Marked lines



    [First_Name & Group....

    From Ally Gowans:-

    Hi Gordy,

     

    Wow! The marked lines query certainly got attention. Thanks for that and thanks to Dusty, Chuck and Guy for their comments. My opinion is that instructors should be capable of taking the tests without additional aids and I view marked lines as such. There is nothing in the rules that allows marked lines either.

     

    This brings me to another matter which I hope Dusty and Chuck may consider. I do a lot of teaching and it is rare for me to use my own rods, of course if a client needs to borrow a rod or a line I have them available. It is important to teach with the student’s own equipment and so it is important that an instructor be able to pick up any reasonably balanced outfit and demonstrate and teach with it. It is also important that an instructor be able to identify deficiencies in tackle. When I was involved compiling instructor’s exams for other organisations I tried hard to get agreement to all or part of the exam being done with equipment supplied by the organisation. The equipment may not be handed over properly balanced and the student would have the opportunity to object and have it altered before proceeding. I think that this would introduce more reality into the tests and encourage candidates to learn how to “feel” rods and find the sweet spots quickly.

     

    Most of the published answers to the Spey casting questions displayed good understanding so just a few additional comments from me.

     

    Spey cast – Means of changing direction employing a roll cast.

     

    Single Spey cast – This is a true continuous motion change of direction dynamic roll cast, ideally the line and the rod will move throughout the process.

     

    Double Spey cast – This is really a means of achieving a line layout to allow a significant change of direction by utilising a basic roll cast.

     

    Anchor – Ideally the minimum amount of fly/leader/line in contact with the water and in front of the casters shoulder required to stabilise the D loop.

     

    D loop – A “D” shaped loop of line suspended from the rod tip to a point in front of the casters shoulder and aligned with the intended forward cast direction.

     

    L bank downstream wind – My downstream snap also works well.

     

    D loop on windward side – When the wind is light and non-threatening. Stronger winds can be coped with if almost horizontal planes are used for the cast.

     

    Dominant hands – Spey casters should not have a dominant hand! (Backhanded versions of double handed casts are awkward but some students may insist in using them and we should be able to teach them).

     

    White mouse – A common pet!

     

    Best wishes,

    Ally Gowans

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    COMMENTS :  Ally uses refreshingly different language and some alternative points of view in answering the Spey questions.

    As for using different tackle combos:  Several years ago, I took Joan Wulff's Instructor Course.  She had 8 very different rod/line combinations .... one for each of us.  None of us had ever used any of them.  We made many casts with the rod given us, then placed it down and moved to the next outfit and repeated the casts..... continued this as a, "round robin" until all had used each outfit.  Detailed critique followed.

    I always examine the outfit a candidate brings to a test ..... and cast with it.

    Gordy

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    From Pete Humphreyes:-

    Hello Gordy,

     

    I liked Rick's answers to the spey quiz - short and concise.  Your question regarding the two minute pause before delivering the cast - I would definitely say that you have made a spey cast.  Andy Murray and Simon G both do a deadline roll cast to start their presentations to demonstrate that the mechanics of a roll cast are the same as a spey cast in the fact that you have a D loop and a anchor.  With the deadline roll the D loop is very small and soft but it still fits the description of "a belly or loop of line below and behind the rod tip".  Both Andy and Simon draw the rod back to past vertical and let a D loop slowly form behind the tip then they pause for a long time and often crack a joke about "we have time to drink a glass of scotch".  Then they apply smooth power to a abrupt stop and out goes the cast. 

    Tight fishing situations with trees or high cliffs behind you and a very limited back cast space require a very soft D loop with little more than a deadline roll cast to present the fly.  You can still use the spey moves to reposition the anchor but the final delivery is done with a dead line roll cast because there is no room to put a dynamic loop behind the rod tip. 

    Pete

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    COMMENT:  Pete, Ally, Rick, Andy Murray, Dereck Brown and Simon Gawesworth apparently all agree that one can make a Spey cast as a roll cast with a dead line back cast.  I remember well, taking lessons on Spey casting from Mike and Denise Maxwell who took the opposite position.  Mike used to say that a Spey cast done poorly could, "degenerate into a roll cast."  He took umbrage with the very idea that a Spey cast was a type of roll cast.   (" Different strokes for different folks !").   Good to know these different views.

    I'd also like to hear from Dennis Grant re his view on this.

    Gordy

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    To you Spey experts, I'll now pose the question:   Does the roll cast with a, "dead line back cast" and a definite stop prior to the forward cast belong in the family of elliptical casts ?

    Gordy

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    Rick Whorwood comes in with his, "Long answer" in defense of his position:

    Hi Gordy
    Your roll cast has a change of direction ( it fit's Andy Murray's / Derrek Browns simple description of a Spey cast, as you know I use this)
    You made a back cast, with your rod  behind you off the vertical at rest. I would assume the line would be below and behind the rod tip with an anchor ? (forming some kind of D Loop)
    You've held the stop position for a full 2 minutes. Since you're on grass you don't need to worry about your anchor sinking to the bottom of the river (excessive stick) or drifting down-stream (so this isn't really a factor in the description of, is this a Spey Cast). We both know that the hardest part about roll/Spey type casting on grass, is trying to load the rod with little or no resistance, to the anchored line.
    Then you make a forward cast. (standard in all cast, if you want to deliver a fly)
     
    I would agree that it's a Spey type cast or a dead line roll cast with a change of direction.
     
    Is a Switch Cast with a change of direction a Single Spey or is it just a Switch Cast with a change of direction? 
     
    Good question:
     
    Rick
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    Rick .... I should have been more complete in stating that my example included a floating line and as I waited that 2 minutes, it remained on still water in front of me while the, "back cast" loop was on the grass behind me.        Gordy
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    Rick Whorwood on marked lines (Counterpoint):-

    Hi Gordy
     
     I have a problem with this  marked line question, As you are aware many manufactured lines are two toned or marked, some lines even come with a plastic sleeve to slide up the line. If I showed up to be tested with one of these (manufactured) lines would I be cheating ? I don't believe a marked line would make me pass or fail a candidate, I'm testing her/him on his ability to teach (his/her understanding of casting and fly-fishing).
    While we're on the subject, is there a standard colour of line that should or shouldn't be used; it's hard to see a white line against a some back grounds ?
     
    The question you need to ask yourself when testing is, would I hire this person to instruct me !
     
    Rick Whorwood's
    Fly Casting School
    www.flycastingschool.com
    (905)-662-8999
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    Rick :  On color:  No requirement.  I advise candidates to use a line which contrasts well with the background.  It is to the candidate's advantage to do this for if the examiner can see the line well, he is less likely to have the task repeated or to make an error in judgement.
     
    I have one teaching/practice line which I dyed black ..... great when I teach on a white sand flat with a bright sky and big white clouds.
     
    Gordy
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