Question on TRANSLATION with PICK-UP casts

I'm relieved that Gustov bypassed you, hopefully it doesn't hit my house!

I'm a little confused by Dennis' question. Assuming you start the pickup with your hand down in front of your chest or belly (rod tip near the water), and you finish with your hand up near your ear or behind, then there's been translation.

The only way there'd be NO translation would be if the hand position remained stationary and the entire pickup was made from rotation only, eh? It would be a "microsecond wrist" backcast...

Actually, I do sometimes make such a cast, like when I'm high-sticking and have the butt of the rod above my head fishing a short line. Then I'll use 99% wrist to flick the rod tip upward and then back down almost immediately for a tuck cast. The backcast might only be 20 degrees from vertical.

Translation occurs during the lift.

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From Mary Ann Dozer:

Gordy,

1. Is there any 'translation' during the pick up cast ?

Yes!

After the initial pick-up there is translation as in any other cast. Translation in the pick-up cast will ensure you have a good tight back loop setting you up for a successful forward cast and subsequent loop.

In a pick-up cast, given the rod tip is low, all rotation and no translation would result in a very wide back loop putting you at a disadvantage (slack/minimal line speed) for the forward cast.

Thanks

Mary Ann

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I understand the question to be... is there translation in a pickup & laydown cast?

Yes... first in the vertical direction during the pickup. Then, more horizontally in the back cast and subsequent forward cast, and finally in the laydown which is vertical also.

Hope you survived Gustov OK.

I think Dennis's question will generate a lot of discussion. Here are my 2 cents....(bear in mind that I have only in last few weeks felt that I have a grasp of these terms.)

If you take the definition of Translation as provided:

"TRANSLATION: Linear (straight line) movement of the casting hand and the fly rod tip with no change in the angular positon of the butt section of the rod from beginning to end." Then the pick up cast cannot have translation as there is a shallow arc from beginning to end as you go from a very low position on the water to the end of the back cast.

If you look at the position of the butt section during this motion the angle of the butt, in relation to the forearm is constant, until rotation, but I notice that in th explanation of translation, that the angle of the butt is in relation to the ground, sooo... given that the pick-up cast does not fully satisfy the definition of translation, I do not beloeve there is translation during the pick up cast.

Now to add to the debate, what about a pick up cast for a very high back cast, such as a steeple cast. Does that have translation??

Lewis

Lewis: I'll answer your last question seperately: NO Gordy

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Gordy, I am happy to hear you suffered no damage from 72 mph winds, you apparently have your hatches pretty well batten down from past experiences. Let's hope the rest of the folks along the Gulf shore fare as well.

In reply to your questions, one man's opinion:

1. Is there any 'translation' during the pick up cast ? - Short answer - There can be.

Elaborate - In my case, if there is, there is very little with less than 40' of line. With a long line on the water there should be a little translation in an effort to get the long line moving, but after that it becomes mostly an elongated rotation.

2. Can there be ? Short answer - As before mentioned, there can be, and with a long line should be.

Elaborate - With a long line I have actually seen people break rods by eliminating a loading move which results in trying to overcome too much inertia and water tension too quickly.

Regards,

Bob Rumpf

Good to hear that you are back and undamaged.

Interesting question. My best guess below:

"Translation" can be defined as "uniform movement without rotation". Applying this definition to the rod, I suspect that there may be a period late in the "loading move" when effectively loaded, where translation occurs, albeit fleetingly. Some part of any drift or thrust might also qualify.

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Answer:

Yes, you can execute a 'lift-move' using exclusively your arm without wrist.

LA:

Loan Wulff school advocates for translation phase or lift from the start position, and it defines the rotational phase as the power snap. If you just sustitute her use of 'lift', and 'power-snap' for translation/rotation respectively, you will find that this works fine for most medium to short length pick-ups.

Michael Jones

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COMMENTS:

Most agree that there is or may be translation during the pick-up cast.

I made a number of pick-up casts this morning with varying lengths of fly line out on the water and purposefully doing them in different ways. Here is what I noted:

1. For most of my short line pick-ups, I had very little or no translation before going to rotation.

2. For my long line pick-ups, I had more translation followed by a mixture of tranlation and rotation, quickly going to pure rotation.

3. I performed the demo whereby I purposely wanted to show how NOT to do it..... ie. rapidly, "snatching" the line from the water causing lots of disturbance. I could create the nastiest disturbance of the water by starting with pure rapid rotation and eliminating translation altogether.

4. With this in mind, I re played Lefty's video, LESSONS WITH LEFTY. Sarah Gardner was the caster playing the part of a student. When she demo'd snatching the line and creating lots of bubbles, she also used mostly rotation.... but when she did it smoothly, some translation preceded her rotation.

5. Picking up a very short line with a wind from in front, I didn't care that my back cast loop was large, so I could get away with making that cast with pure rotation, starting with slow rotation and increasing it as I loaded my rod. No translation for that one.

6. I was able to change my casting (pick-up) style to successfully include various amounts of translation when doing long line pick-up casts. When I used greater amounts of translation, it delayed my rotation and made it a bit easier to make tight back cast loops.

My short answers to Dennis' questions are:

1.) Is there any "translation" during the pickup cast ? Ans: Yes. (Most of the time)

2.) Can there be ? Ans: Yes.

Gordy