Walter & Group.........
Many very good answer pages to our list of 20 questions. Couldn't possibly send them all. I chose one of the best and added comments. Answers are from Mack Martin of Atlanta, Ga. My comments in BOLD CAPS. ............ Gordy
----- Original Message -----From: Gordy HillTo: Mack MartinSent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 1:41 PMSubject: Tackle: Quiz on rod guidesMack & Group....
While awaiting opinions from Bruce Richards and Noel Perkins, Let's change topic.
Tackle: Rod guides ...... a little, " 20 questions" quiz:-
1.) What are the purposes of having guides on a fly rod ? To provide a conduit for shooting line and distributing the stress in the rod from loading.
AGREE.
2.) What would happen if we cast and fished with a fly rod having only a tip top ..... no guides ? I guess the line would be a bit more distributed on the boat or water and shooting line would be difficult.
CORRECT IF DISTANCE IS ATTEMPTED. I ACTUALLY WENT OUT AND DID IT USING A ROD WHICH I WAS MAKING UP .... HAD A HANDLE ASSEMBLY BUT NO GUIDES ... ONLY A TIP TIP. I NOTED THAT IT WAS HARD TO CONTROL SLACK BETWEEN MY LINE HAND AND THE ROD TIP. THE GREATER THE CASTING DISTANCE ATTEMPTED, THE MORE DIFFICULT THIS BECAME, TO THE POINT THAT THE LINE KEPT SLAPPING THE ROD AND SOMETIMES ACTUALLY TWISTED ABOUT THE SHAFT. MUCH WORSE WITH A ROD WITH UNSTRUNG GUIDES. THIS RESULTED IN THE SLACK LINE WRAPPING AROUND THE GUIDES MAKING LINE SHOOT VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE.
3.) How many guides should a 9' single hand fly rod have ? 10
CONVENNTIONAL KNOWLEDGE IS THAT MOST RODS SHOULD HAVE ONE MORE GUIDE THAN THE NUMBER OF FEET IN LENGTH. NOW THAT WE HAVE LIGHTER GUIDES, SOME HAVE IMPROVED PERFORMANCE BY ADDING ONE OR MORE WIRE GUIDES. SOME ADDED ONE EXTRA STRIPPER GUIDE, ESPECIALLY ON THE HEAVIER RODS USED FOR GREATER DISTANCE AND/OR BIG GAME FISHING. FAMOUS CUSTOM ROD MAKER, JOY DUNLOP HAS DONE THIS. I'VE CAST HIS RODS WITH HIM AND HAVE NOTED IMPROVED PERFORMANCE...... SMOOTHER CASTS WITH SMOOTHER LOOP LEGS.
4.) Some experts have recommended an extra stripper guide placed about 4" - 5" beyond the first stripper guide. Why ? The extra guide should be halfway between the first stripper and hte next guide. This extra guide eliminates the slapping of the line against the rod during many casts.Therefore, the effective friction goes down and line shoots further.
YES. JOY DUNLOP AND AL CRISE MAY HAVE BEEN AMONG THE FIRST TO DO THIS. THE EXTRA STRIPPER GUIDE IS CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE HANDLE THAT IT DOES NOT FEEL AS HEAVY TO THE CASTER AS IT WOULD IF PLACED MORE DISTALLY (TOWARD THE TIP) . THIS IS DESCRIBED IN DETAIL IN DON PHILLIPS' THE TECHNOLOGY OF FLY RODS, PP. 73-74.
5.) Name some advantages (if any) of single foot wire guides.Use less thread and epoxy (lighter rod). AGREE. ALSO, THERE MAY BE A BIT LESS LINE CONTACT WITH THE ROD BLANK ON THE SHOOT. ONE OF YOU NOTED THAT THE SINGLE FOOT, "FOOTPRINT" WAS JUST AS GREAT AS THAT OF THE DOUBLE FOOTED GUIDES BECAUSE THE SINGLE FOOT WAS LONGER THAN ONE OF THE DOUBLE FOOTED GUIDE FEET. (THAT MAY BE TRUE WITH SOME BRANDS, BUT NOT WITH THE ONES I'VE USED.)
6.) Are there any disadvantages to the use of single foot wire guides ? Usually more expensive and not as durable as snake guides. GENERALLY TRUE. AS SOME OF YOU POINTED OUT, SOME BRANDS BEND DOWN AND ARE RUINED. AN EXCEPTION LIES IN THE, RECOIL GUIDES SOLD BY REC. ALSO, SOME POINTED OUT THAT A LINE KNOT CAN HANG UP MORE EASILY IN THEM THAN IN DOUBLE FOOTED SNAKE GUIDES.
7) Name some advantages of double foot wire guides.Less expensive, more durable. TRUE. MORE TRADITIONAL DESIGN, TOO. LINE TANGLES CAN BE BROUGHT THROUGH THEM MORE EASILY.
8.) List some (if any) disadvantages of double foot wire guides. (MACK OMMITTED HIS ANSWER) THEY ARE A BIT HEAVIER ..... MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE DOUBLE WRAPPINGS AND EPOXY COATINGS ON THEM. SOME HAVE OPINED THAT THEY MAY CAUSE SOME LOCAL, "FLAT SPOT" STIFFNESS OF THE FLY ROD .... BUT, SINCE THEY DO FLEX, I DOUBT THAT IS OF REAL IMPORTANCE.
9.) Years ago, someone invented a fly rod with no guides. The fly line passed inside the hollow blank. How do you suppose this affected the cast ? Increased friction would be my opinion, but I never saw such a rod.
YES. AS I RECALL, THAT WAS AN EXPERIMENT DONE WITH A BERYLLIUM COPPER ROD ABOUT '40 OR '41. JUST DIDN'T WORK.
10.) Name some materials commonly used for wire guides.titanium carbide, titanium nitride, chrome steel, titanium. I'D ADD STAINLESS STEEL AS WELL AS NICKEL/TITANIUM. MOST POPULAR ARE THE HARD CHROME COATED STAINLESS STEEL GUIDES. THE NI/TI ONES ARE GAINING POPULARITY AMONG SALT WATER FLY RODDERS.
11.) Is there any advantage for the use of a first stripper guide with a greater than usual ring diameter ? It may reduce the effective friction seen by the line as it enters the 1st guide. LEFTY KREH HAS DEMONSTRATED THAT THE LARGER RINGED FIRST STRIPPER GUIDE "GATHERS" SHOT LINE MORE EFFECTIVELY. I THINK HE'S CORRECT ....... BUT I HAVE NO PROOF. (PRESENTING THE FLY, LEFTY KREH, PP. 23, 24. ) HIS CONCEPT IS THAT THE LARGER RING HELPS, "FUNNEL" THE LINE THROUGH IT WITH LESS RESISTANCE.)
12.) Is there any advantage to having the first stripper guide mounted so its ring is offset a greater than customary distance from the rod blank ? (High standoff guide) I do not see any significant advantage. NEITHER DID I..... UNTIL TOM WHITE DID AN EXPERIMENT IN WHICH HE CHALKED THE ROD BLANK AND MADE CASTS WITH STRIPPER GUIDES OF LOW AND OF HIGH OFFSET. THE ONES WITH LOW OFFSET HAD THE FLY LINE RUB OFF THE CHALK WITH FEWER CASTS. THIS STRONGLY SUGGESTED THAT THE HIGH OFFSET FIRST STRIPPER GUIDE DID MINIMIZE LINE CONTACT WITH THE ROD STAFT DURING THE SHOOT.
13.) Is the internal diameter of the wire guides relative to the thickness of the fly line of critical importance to the shooting of the fly line ? No. YOU ARE PROBABLY CORRECT ABOUT THAT. (CHECK OUT THE TEXT AND FIGURE 8 - 6 ON P. 75 OF DON PHILLIPS' BOOK.)
14.) Many salt water fly rods have extra large diameter tip tops. Why ? Minimize net friction at that point. MORE SO THAT THE LINE/LEADER CONNECTION AND SOME TANGLES CAN GET THROUGH MORE EASILY. (THEORETICAL DISADVANTAGE BEING THAT A SMALL AMOUNT OF ADDITIONAL WEIGHT WAY OUT AT THE TIP CAN YIELD THE SENSATION OF A HEAVIER ROD AND CAN HAVE SUFFICIENT MOMENTUM AS TO INCREASE COUNTERFLEX AND REBOUND.)
15.) You are fighting a fish. There is a tangle in your fly line outside the rod tip. Is there anything you can do to make it more likely that you can retrieve the mess throught the guides without it hanging up ? Turn the rod over. YES. TURN IT UPSIDE DOWN AND THEN RETRIEVE. (WORKS MUCH BETTER WITH DOUBLE FOOTED SNAKE GUIDES.)
16.) Why don't fly rod manufacturers save money and weight by making rods with only half the recommended number of guides ? It would probably create stress points on the rod where the stress would be too great for the design of the rod. YES. MORE LINE SLAP AGAINST THE ROD, TOO.
17.) Can you name two different methods of fastening a tip top to the end of the fly rod ? hot glue and epoxy. YES. ALSO, SOME TIP TOPS HAVE DOUBLE FEET FOR A WRAP-ON CONNECTION. AL CRISE MENTIONED THAT IN THE HEAT OF A TROPIC SUN THAT THE HOT GLUE CAN SOMETIMES LOOSEN, SO HE USES EPOXY. PROBLEM I SEE IS THAT IF YOUR TIP TOP GETS GROOVED OR OTHERWISE DAMAGED, YOU CAN'T REPLACE IT MY ANY METHOD I KNOW.
18.) Hinged ring guides were use years ago. For the most part, they have been discontinued. Why ? Probably due to corrosion but I am not sure?? NO. THEY WOULD FLIP DOWN AGAINST THE LINE AND YIELD RESISTANCE. ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOOT LINE WITH THEM. THEY WERE USED YEARS AGO (MID 1800'S TO ABOUT 1920) ON TROUT RODS BY FISHERMEN WHO JUST DIDN'T NEED TO SHOOT LINE. (NOTE THE MIDDLE PHOTO ON P.9 AND THE BOTTOM PHOTO ON P. 10 & MIDDLE PICTURE, P.29OF ROD CRAFTING, BY JEFFREY L. HATTON.)
19) What is, AGATE ? Form of quartz. YES. OUR STRIPPER GUIDES BACK IN THE 1930'S OFTEN USED IT AS A BOUND RING. I LOOKED IT UP. AGATE IS CONSIDERED A, "CHALCEDONY", WHICH IS A MICROCRYSTALLINE VARIETY OF QUARTZ. IN THOSE DAYS, IT PROVIDED THE SMOOTHEST SURFACE AVAILABLE AND SOME RINGS WERE RUBY RED WHICH WAS ATTRACTIVE. PROBLEM WAS THAT A SLIGHT KNOCK AND IT WOULD CRACK. SOMETIMES THE CRACK WAS SO SMALL YOU COULDN'T SEE IT. WHEN OUR SILK LINES ABRAIDED, WE'D SUSPECT THAT GUIDE AS THE LIKELY CULPRIT AND TRY TO PROVE IT BY TAKING A PIECE OF A LADIES SILK STOCKING AND RUN IT THROUGH THE GUIDE. THAT WOULD HANG UP ON THE SLIGHTEST CRACK ! (SEE PP. 113, 141, 143, 150, 151, 155 & GROOVE WEAR OF AN AGATE TIP, P. 173 OF JEFF HATTON'S BOOK.)
20.) Name at least two disadvantages of guides with ceramic rings.They pop out of the guide ring. More expense with minimal advantage. YES. AS SOME OF YOU NOTED, THEY ARE HEAVY, TOO. THEY MADE INTO A HEAVY ROD, INDEED, WHEN SMALL ONES WERE USED INSTEAD OF WIRE GUIDES. SOME CUSTOM ROD MAKERS USED THEM AS A POPULAR ITEM DURING THE EARLY 1960'S.
Gordy