Messages, multiple. / Translation

If you would be so kind as to pass this along to others in CCI pages & study group.

Michael Gallart

Director- Programs EJTU/FFF

Director ,VP- Education Chair FFF N.E.C

FFF Certified Casting Instructor

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Messages between Troy and Bruce Richards, below. Much to be learned, here: -

Hi guys, little time so my comments are short. Interesting discussion

though, but what happens in this scenario is fairly clear..... Below...

Bruce

Scientific Anglers/3M

4100 James Savage Rd.

Midland, MI 48642 USA

Tel: 989-496-1113

Fax: 989-496-3374

"Miller, Troy"

<Troy.Miller@bake

rhughes.com> To

"Gordon Hill"

12/03/2006 08:07 <masterstudy@xxxxxxxxxxx>

PM cc

<bwrichards@xxxxxxx>

Subject

RE: Troy Miller on Translation. Bruce's comments in his text prefaced by, *****

Thanks Gordy. I see the same sag you’re referring to mid-way through the

long distance casters’ backcasts, but the incredible speed that their loop

is traveling at generally tends to pull that sag up and by the time they’ve

started their forward stroke, MOST of the slack has eaten itself up. I

watched in utter amazement as Paul Arden made cast after cast up at the

Masters Workshop in Mt. Home last summer. If you took a snapshot of the

cast when the loop was about 30% unrolled, you’d say "stopped the rod with

the tip unloading somewhat downward. Need to stop the rod with the tip

unloading more linearly along the SLP." And you’d be right, I believe.

But, then I get to eat those words when the massive velocity just pulls the

sag up straight into perfect position for the forward launch. Paul was

casting 10 to 20 feet further than the longest casters present, but DID NOT

have the prettiest looking loops.

*****To cast extreme distances it is imperative that the rod be bent, a

lot. A rod that has an extreme bend will also have a lot of counterflex,

which will throw a large belly in the bottom leg. ALL the top distance

casters throw this big belly, it isn't possible to carry as much line with

the rod bend it takes to attain the necessary tip speed. It is very

possible to throw over 100 ft. without it, but ALL the casters who are

capable of throwing more than 110' consistently throw the big belly....

Maybe if I use some real numbers, it will make my point more clearly.

Let’s use a made up "required muzzle velocity" of 200 mph when the rod is

at RSP to cause the line, leader, and fly to turn over completely, assuming

perfect loop form. So in the case where we use no translation, we have to

go from 0 mph to 200 mph using only the rotational movement around the

pivot point of the wrist (or elbow, or shoulder, as you prefer). Gaining

SLP of the rod tip will be based purely on the rate of angular acceleration

being optimized.

As Jerry Puckett mentioned, some casters can do this very

well and it’s a treat to watch. I would NEVER attempt to teach someone to

cast that way, especially if they needed to cast beyond 40 feet. Caveat –

I haven’t tried to teach someone with a shoulder injury.

******It is possible to throw very long without a lot of translation, just

loop at Rick Hartman, Paul, the Rajeffs, etc. Yes, they do translate quite

a bit, but their square stance certainly limits translation more than those

using an open stance (Lefty, Brian O, etc.

Now let’s go to the translational with rotational case, which most casters

use. Let’s say that we can get the rod tip and line moving at 50 mph in

the early phase of the cast, via (mainly) translational movement of the

rod. Then, we transition from translational into rotational movement,

smoothly and gracefully. Since we’re already at 50 mph, we only need to

gain another 150 mph via angular movement, and the flyline already

understands what it’s purpose in life is going to be. It’s already been

given a pretty clear idea of what it’s gonna be when it grows up. IMO,

most casters are able to achieve something much closer to SLP when using

the combo of trans/rot movements, than when they try to cast with rotation

only. It’s just easier to pull off, whether there was much slack present

or not.

*****Translations biggest benefit is slack removal. The amount of speed it

can directly add to a cast is very limited compared to what rod rotation

and flex contribute. Having the line straight when rotation starts allows

more efficent rod bend and tip path control, much more important than the

small % of speed the translation move can impart directly. As tip speed

contributors, rod rotation accounts for at least 90% of speed, the haul

about another 10%, translation the rest (I know, not much left!)

I have an open mind about this, but I’m pretty convinced at this point that

translation in a distance cast is mainly required to achieve a higher

muzzle velocity with optimal ballistic coefficient. "Rotation only" is

incapable of achieving both high velocity and perfect loop shape when

casting long lines. Bruce, can you educate me some more?

******Translation is important, but mostly by increasing the efficiency of

rotation. The straighter the line in the air the less translation is

needed, which is why some casters, those that are very practiced and throw

perfect back loops, are able to throw very long without much translation.

The style that is normally used makes it difficult for the caster to watch

back loops, but those using it feel that it allows a more powerful stroke.

Harder to learn, but at least as effective as the more open stance, based

on the fact that most of the top casters now use a translation limitnig

closed stance.

Bruce

Regards -- TAM

-----Original Message-----

From: Gordon Hill [mailto:masterstudy@xxxxxxxxxxx]

Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:56 AM

To: Miller, Troy

Subject: Troy Miller on Translation

Troy & Group....

Messages, multiple. / Translation - Rotation