ol Al...
I agree with the answers in red.
One technicality, however, is that we've already established that we do NOT need a full stop for all casts.
While it may be best to have that stop for most casts, the thing that IS mandatory for loop formation is a point where the rod is straight...even for an instant. ie., "RSP". This can occur with sufficient deceleration of the rod tip movement even if a true stop isn't achieved. (Paul Arden has clearly made that point.).........what's important to loop formation is that at RSP, the moving fly line can overtake the rod tip.....and it can do that as long as the tip movement is slower than the movement of the fly line.
Gordy
From: "Allen Crise" <flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Rod Henderson" <roderickmpt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Jerry Puckett" <jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx>,"Ron Mc Quary" <codyfly@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Wes Hodgson" <fifasoccer@xxxxxxx>,"Gary Eaton" <geaton@xxxxxxx>,"Travis Burt" <tburt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Sonny Hinojosa" <csonnyh@xxxxxxxxx>,"Dennis Burns" <Dennis.Burns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Marshall Lasswell" <mlasswell@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"jeff jackson" <tjjackson3@xxxxxxxxx>,"Rusty dunn" <caandu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"John Till" <till@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Dale Connally" <Dale_Connally@xxxxxxxxxx>,"gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>,"keith Richard" <KRichard@xxxxxxx>,"Steve Hollensed" <stevehollensed@xxxxxxxxxx>,"Ron Allen Thomas" <koolfly1@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"Matt Wilhem" <educate@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"LC Clower" <lcclower@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"Ken Cole" <ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"james Parker" <james.parker3@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"James Russell" <jrussell1128@xxxxxxxxx>,"Harry Boyd" <maker@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Gary Wood" <brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx>,"Don DeRidder" <ddr125@xxxxxxx>,"dave Speer" <dave@xxxxxxxxx>,"Clay Roberts" <CRoberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"cindy Alexander" <calex75773@xxxxxxxxx>,"Stacy Trimble" <stacytrimble@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Steve Barlow" <steve.barlow1@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"john Deardorff" <jdeardorff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"david Bradley" <dallasflyfisher@xxxxxxxxx>,"Troy Miller" <Troy.Miller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Harvey Harris" <Hlhpc@xxxxxxx>,"ol Al" <flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx>,"Don McCurry" <donmcmurry@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Kevin Hensley" <jargo432@xxxxxxxxx>,"Ronnie Ray" <Ronnie.Ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Ryan watters" <rwatters11@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"David Brydon" <david.brydon@xxxxxxx>
Subject: FW: FW: Distance Casting
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:00:05 -0600
from RonAllen Crise FFF Master Casting InstructorSOC VP of EducationHawk Ridge Flycasting School2508 A County Road 1011Glen Rose, TX 76043254-897-2045geocities.com/rrdoctorflysoup@xxxxxxxxxx-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Thomas [mailto:koolfly1@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:58 PM
To: flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: FW: Distance Casting
Hey Al,
Here is my response to the question that I posed...
Howdy Al,
One question that I would like to ask the study group, I was reading the Orvis Fly Casting Guide by Tom Deck and I read an excerpt by the author that pertains to shooting line while distance casting. At what point would you say that the line should be released out of the line hand during the shoot whether the caster is Double Hauling or just shooting line?
A. Before the rod unloads on the forward cast.
No, If the line is relased before the rod stops, the amount of slack in the line from the line hand to the stripping guide eye is taken up with rod motion. As the line slides through the guides as the rod moves forward, the line is no longer anchored and no loop formation. This evident by the line piling in front of the caster.
B. As soon as the rod unloads on the forward cast.
If the line is released at this point, and you are casting, say 60ft of line. You should be able to shoot half that amount. But if the line is released as the rod stops, there is not enough line speed to pull that additional amount of line that you are shooting, due to the simultaneous release of the line and the stopping of the rod.
C. After the rod unloads and the loop has formed and is in front of the caster.
Yes, this is the ideal point in which to release the line for the shoot. As the loop is formed and you can see loop in front of you, releasing the line at this point for the shoot will help you to achieve the distance desired.
We know that the rod has to come to a stop and unload, this action transfers the energy of the rod to the fly line. If double hauling or shooting line, which scenario is appropriate A, B, or C to gain the maximum amount of distance during the release of the line in the line hand?
Ron Allen Thomas,
FFF Certified Casting Instructor
1715 21st Street
Lake Charles, Louisiana 70601
337.802.1922
From: "Allen Crise" <flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Rod Henderson" <roderickmpt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Jerry Puckett" <jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx>,"Ron Mc Quary" <codyfly@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Wes Hodgson" <fifasoccer@xxxxxxx>,"Gary Eaton" <geaton@xxxxxxx>,"Travis Burt" <tburt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Sonny Hinojosa" <csonnyh@xxxxxxxxx>,"Dennis Burns" <Dennis.Burns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Marshall Lasswell" <mlasswell@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"jeff jackson" <tjjackson3@xxxxxxxxx>,"Rusty dunn" <caandu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"John Till" <till@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Dale Connally" <Dale_Connally@xxxxxxxxxx>,"gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>,"keith Richard" <KRichard@xxxxxxx>,"Steve Hollensed" <stevehollensed@xxxxxxxxxx>,"Ron Allen Thomas" <koolfly1@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"Matt Wilhem" <educate@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"LC Clower" <lcclower@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"Ken Cole" <ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"james Parker" <james.parker3@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"James Russell" <jrussell1128@xxxxxxxxx>,"Harry Boyd" <maker@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Gary Wood" <brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx>,"Don DeRidder" <ddr125@xxxxxxx>,"dave Speer" <dave@xxxxxxxxx>,"Clay Roberts" <CRoberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"cindy Alexander" <calex75773@xxxxxxxxx>,"Stacy Trimble" <stacytrimble@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Steve Barlow" <steve.barlow1@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"john Deardorff" <jdeardorff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"david Bradley" <dallasflyfisher@xxxxxxxxx>,"Troy Miller" <Troy.Miller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Harvey Harris" <Hlhpc@xxxxxxx>,"ol Al" <flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx>,"Don McCurry" <donmcmurry@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Kevin Hensley" <jargo432@xxxxxxxxx>,"Ronnie Ray" <Ronnie.Ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Ryan watters" <rwatters11@xxxxxxxxxxx>,"David Brydon" <david.brydon@xxxxxxx>
Subject: FW: Distance Casting
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:29:36 -0600
Howdy Gang.Got this from Ron. Good questions I am not sure what Tom Deck said. Check my answer at the bottom.ol AlAllen Crise FFF Master Casting InstructorSOC VP of EducationHawk Ridge Flycasting School2508 A County Road 1011Glen Rose, TX 76043254-897-2045geocities.com/rrdoctorflysoup@xxxxxxxxxx-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Thomas [mailto:koolfly1@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:58 PM
To: flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Distance Casting
Howdy Al,One question that I would like to ask the study group, I was reading the Orvis Fly Casting Guide by Tom Deck and I read an excerpt by the author that pertains to shooting line while distance casting. At what point would you say that the line should be released out of the line hand during the shoot whether the caster is Double Hauling or just shooting line?
A. Before the rod unloads on the forward cast.
B. As soon as the rod unloads on the forward cast.
C. After the rod unloads and the loop has formed and is in front of the caster.
We know that the rod has to come to a stop and unload, this action transfers the energy of the rod to the fly line. If double hauling or shooting line, which scenario is appropriate A, B, or C to gain the maximum amount of distance during the release of the line in the line hand?
Thanks,
Ron Allen Thomas,
FFF Certified Casting Instructor
1715 21st Street
Lake Charles, Louisiana 70601
337.802.1922
If you picked A. Your rod would unload straight up sending the loop the Wrong way.
If you picked B. You would be casting slack as the loop would fall apart letting the energy destroy the loop.
If you picked C You would be sending the loop out in the direction of the speed up and stop. Just like you should.
ol Al