Jerry....
Very good questions.
A good question on an MCI exam is: "Tell me about balanced fly tackle."
First of all, it used to be thought and taught that an outfit was well, "balanced" if the reel wt. balanced the rod well when the caster held the outfit with one finger in the center of the cork grip.
Fallacies of that old fashioned line of thinking are:-
1.) No matter the weight and size of the rod, casting gets easier and more efficient as the reel gets lighter. You can prove that to yourself by taking your favorite rod and removing the reel. Coil the line on the ground. Then see what a pleasure it is to cast !
Reason for this is simple physics. That reel has weight. The greater the weight, the greater the inertia. According to Newton's 3rd law, "objects at rest tend to remain at rest / objects in motion tend to remain in motion. The latter is true in this case as the heavy reel has so much momentum that it is hard to stop. That makes the rapid deceleration of the rod tip that we loosely refer to as the STOP harder to achieve. In addition to this, the darned thing is just plain heavy and tiring to hold and swing about.
2.) The old theory ignores the line. This has a certain weight in the guides as well as that out of the rod tip.
3.) The feel of, "balance" also has to do with the length of the rod. If I take and hold out two different rods, both weighing EXACTLY THE SAME on a scale, one rod being 8' in length and the other 9' long, the longer rod will always feel heavier to the caster.
4.) Most expert casters look at tackle, "balance" as the use of the correct wt. of line for each rod. An entirely different concept. Even so....it is the weight of the line carried out of the rod tip which makes the greatest difference from a dynamic standpoint.
Now let's take that 11 wt. Winston to which you referred. Steve could cast it with an 11 wt. line just fine....but you felt it didn't load well enough with that line. My guess is that Steve was carrying a bit more line out of the rod tip than you did. If he carried only 6' more line and wasn't into the thin running line as yet, THEN HE WAS CASTING A LINE ONE WT. DESIGNATION HEAVIER THAN THE LINE YOU WERE CASTING. Carrying 30' of that #11 line would be casting with just that.....an 11 wt. line. Adding 5 - 6 feet means that he'd be casting the equivalent of a 12 wt. line. Add another 5-6 feet, and he'd be casting a 13 wt. line.
When tarpon fishing, we are often in circumstances where most of the fish present all of a sudden at short range....say 30' out from the skiff. For a day when this is the norm, I'd opt for a fly line one or two wt. designations greater......ie. a 12 wt. or 13 wt. line on that # 11 rod.
If I'm only carrying 20' of an 11 wt. designated line, then I'm really casting with a 9 wt. line ! That may not load the rod sufficiently.
On the other hand, on a crystal clear day with no wind or clouds, we might find that it was necessary to make a 80' or 90' cast to get a tarpon to strike. In that case, I'd want to load that same 11 wt. rod with a 10 wt. line...because I'll be casting with a lot of line out of the rod, so that lighter designation line will still load the rod well.
Balance, then, is a concept which must be understood as the relationship between the distance needed, the amount of line carried and the capability of the rod..... Not just the wt. of the reel. It also has to do with the leader length and design and the wt. of the fly......but that gets into a much more complex subject.
Having said all that, I see that some Spey experts do still consider the physical wt. balance between the reel and the long rod. I think that may be because of the great length of these sticks. (Reference: SPEY CASTING by Simon Gawesworth, pp. 5-7.) Simon (p.6) uses this concept to find what he calls the, "balance point" as a reference to consider in placing the two hands on the long cork grip.
Jason Borger, "...THE NATURE OF FLY CASTING" (pp. 54-56) goes into detail as he separates the terms, "balanced outfit" and "balanced system". He also discusses it from both casting and fishing standpoints. In line with this, one could consider that the use of a light wt. Hardy, "Perfect" model reel on a 12 wt. rod as being, "unbalanced"......a ridiculous arrangement for tarpon...yet great for pure casting.
Read the quote from Vincent Marinaro in Jason's book on p. 55. It starts out: "Every inch that the cast is lengthened or shortened changes the alleged balance and every unneccessary ounce in an unneccessarily heavy reel dampens and degrades the cast."
Better, yet....for more background, read pp. 39 - 45 , IN THE RING OF THE RISE BY Marinaro, 1976.
Gordy
From: jerry puckett <jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
CC: Steve Schmidt <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Balance of Rods and reels
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
Gordy, I was casting with Steve Schmidt of Western Rivers Fly shop last night in the dark as he was preparing for a Tarpon trip in your area. We were using a Winston 11 wt. rod. I do not remember the type reel but discovered that this rod was incredibly light and responsive for a 11 weight and the normal salt water reel seemed heavy. To my trout way of thinking this set-up did not have a balanced feel to me and really required a lot of strength and wrist control. Note: this was my reaction as Steve was casting like the old pro that he is. He was throwing some awesome backhand cast. Look out Tarpon!Steve and I talked about going to a 12 weight line on this set up. Would this make it a better balnced out fit for reduce casting fatigue. Do you have any thoughts on this line of thought since you are the seasoned salt water angler? I am just trying to learn so I will be in a better position to advise someone who is going Tarpon fishing.Thanks Jerry