Walter....
Note my comments in the two prior sets of answers.
My additional comments to you in your answer text in BOLD CAPS.
Gordy
From: Walter Simbirski <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: questions
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:39:36 -0700
----- Original Message -----From: Gordon HillTo: dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ; CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ; captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ; barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ; niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ; whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ; scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; cooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxxCc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ; croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxx ; gavin@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ; simbirsw@xxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossomFFF@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ; dnewpher@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hlhpc@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; jhara.carter@xxxxxxxxxxx ; harveyjl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx ; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ; captflyrod@xxxxxxx ; mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxxSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:02 AMSubject: RE: questionsDennis...
We have noted the same thing.....that many of the MCI candidates are not clear on some of these basic terms.
One of the best ways of getting this across, is to come up with a brief "quiz" which will get us thinking.
Gordy
QUIZ:
Let's see how many of you can come up with descriptions for these terms: (Formal definitions not necessary)
1.) Rod plane. - The plane of the rod during the cast. For a straight cast with an upright rod the plane
would be perpendicular to the ground oriented in the direction of the cast. When talking about planes
in fly casting we are not talking about a plane in the geometric sense (i.e. a 2 dimensional surface) since the
rod, casting and line planes can change during the cast - an example would be when making a curve cast
or an elliptical cast causing the rod plane to change during the cast. In the geometric sense the rod plane
changes during this cast. TECHNICALLY, YOU ARE CORRECT. IN GIVING THIS ANSWER ON AN ORAL EXAM, HOWEVER, YOU LEAD YOURSELF IN TO SOME POTENTIAL COMPLICATED QUESTIONS. KEEP IT CRISP AND SIMPLE.....AND LET YOUR EXAMINER ADD ANY COMPLEXITY.
THE ELLIPTICAL CASTS OF WHICH THE, "BELGIAN CAST" IS ONE, INCLUDE CHANGE OF ROD PLANES BETWEEN THAT OF THE BACK CAST AND THAT OF THE FORWARD CAST.
ONE CAN MAKE A VERY GOOD CURVED CAST WITHOUT CHANGING ROD PLANE IF WE DEFINE ROD PLANE AS THE ORIENTATION OF THE ROD FROM VERTICAL TO HORIZONTAL, ALTHOUGH SOME CURVE CASTS DO USE A CHANGE IN ROD PLANE DURING THE SAME STROKE. A DISCUSSION OF THAT GETS PRETTY COMPLICATED......ESPECIALLY IF WE LAUNCH INTO THE INTRICACIES OF THINGS LIKE THE CORKSCREW CURVE CASTS. (WITH THIS, THE ROD PLANE CONTINUALLY CHANGES, AND THERE MAY BE NO STOP !)
2.) Line plane. The plane of the line during the cast. For a straight cast with the line maintaining a horizontal
path during the cast the line plane would be parallel to the ground. Breaking the line path is one cause of
tailing loops. In distance casting the line plane is changed between the back and forward casts in order
to change the launch angle (and hence trajectory) of the line. Some casters (such as Joan Wulff) use a
see saw effect to change the rod plane. Other casters will throw a horizontal, or slightly elevated, back cast
and wait for it to begin to settle towards the ground to set up the forward trajectory. YES.
3.) Casting plane. The plane of the hand during the cast.
YES. AS I ANSWERED THE OTHERS; IN THE PAST I'D USED IT AS A SYNONYM FOR BOTH LINE PLANE AND TRAJECTORY . MY REASONS WERE: 1.) I SEE THE DEFINITION OF THE CASTING STROKE AS THE PATH TAKEN BY THE HAND DURING THE CAST. 2.) STUDIES SHOW THAT THE HAND USUALLLY TAKES AN ELLIPTICAL PATH DURING ANY BUT THE SHORTEST CASTS. (CHECK OUT JOAN WULFF'S BOOK ON WHAT SHE CALLED, "THE ROUNDING".....P 63, PARAGRAPH 2.") NOW WHETHER OR NOT THIS ELLIPSE CAN BE IN A SINGLE PLANE IS ARGUABLE.
4.) Trajectory. The path of the line. Also refers to the launch angle of the line in the cast. YES. I USE IT AS A SYNONYM FOR LINE PLANE.
5.) SLP. - Straight line path (of the rod tip). A requirement for tight, well formed loop. The size
of the loop is determined by how far the rod tip deviates from the slp. No deviation results in
the line crashing into the rod tip. A small deviation during the stop results in a tight loop. A very convex
path of the rod tip results in a doming line.A concave path results in a tailing loop. A rod tip path which
is intentionally not straight results in a curve cast. TRUE. (ON AN EXAM YOU COULD DIG YOURSELF A HOLE WITH YOUR LAST SENTENCE, BECAUSE IT LIKELY WILL DEMAND SOME QUALIFICATION BY THE EXAMINER.)
ONE OF THE WAYS OF PRODUCING A CURVED CAST IS TO DEVIATE FROM SLP IN A PLANE HORIZONTAL TO THE ROD PLANE. AS YOU KNOW, A CONVEX ROD TIP PATH (IN THE ROD PLANE) IF MORE THAN A TINY BIT WILL LIKELY YIELD A LARGE LOOP, WHILE A CONCAVE ROD TIP PATH AS PRODUCED BY A SPIKE OF POWER PRIOR TO THE, "SPEED-UP-AND STOP" WILL BE APT TO YIELD A TAILING LOOP.
FOR BREVITY WHEN ANSWERING THIS QUESTION ON YOUR ORAL EXAM, I'D SAY, SIMPLY, "STRAIGHT LINE PATH OF THE ROD TIP". THEN IT'S UP TO YOUR EXAMINER AS TO WHETHER OR NOT TO GO FURTHER WITH AN EXPANDED ANSWER.
6.) RSP. - Rod straight position. The natural configuration of the rod with no load. Following the stop
the rsp is point where all possible energy has been transferred to the line. Following the rsp loop formation
begins. AGREE.
7.) Counterflex. - the flex of the rod after it passes rsp. Contributes to loop formation. YES.....HOWEVER IT ISN'T NECESSARY FOR LOOP FORMATION. EXAMPLE: I CAN CAST WITH A BROOM HANDLE AND FORM A LOOP AT RSP. THERE IS NO FLEXION OR RETURN TO THIS STIFF, "ROD". COUNTERFLEX DOES ALTER THE SHAPE AND SIZE OF THE LOOP. (LOTS OF COUNTERFLEX WITH A VERY FLEXIBLE ROD CAN OPEN THE LOOP AND GIVE IT A ROUNDER FORWARD EDGE, FOR EXAMPLE.)
8.) Rebound. - return of the rod to rsp after counterflexing. YES.
9.) Inertia. - tendency of an object to remain in motion (or at rest) unless acted upon
by an external force. In the cast inertia results in counterflex. Inertia of the line and rod
also contribute to the load in the rod during the casting stroke. AGREE.
10.) Tracking. - path of the hand during the cast, typically refers to side to side deviation
of the hand during the cast. AGREE. THIS TERM IS USUALLY USED TO DESCRIBE THE PATH OF THE ROD TIP, ALTHOUGH I MUST ADMIT THAT THAT IS CONTROLLED BY THE PATH TAKEN BY THE HAND.
11.) Drift.- Non loading move following the stop to set up the stroke for the reverse cast. YES.....THAT IS ONE WAY TO DESCRIBE IT.
Typically this is to increase the length of the next stroke but negative drift is also possible.
In most cases a negative drift is referred to as creep and has a negative impact on the
reverse cast (i.e., tailing loops, lost power). THE TERM, "NEGATIVE DRIFT" IS A NEW ONE TO ME. YOUR REFERENCE ??
12.) Followthrough. Natural movement of the rod and hand in the direction of the cast
following the stop. When false casting this will typically contribute to drift. After the cast GOOD POINT ! ADDS THE CONCEPT THAT DRIFT REALLY CAN OCCUR AND BE USEFUL IN BOTH FORWARD AND BACK DIRECTIONS DURING FALSE CASTING.
the follow through may be used to align the rod with the line travel which
reduces the amount of friction from the guides on the line when shooting line. TECHNICALLY CORRECT. LONGER ANSWER THAN NEEDED IF YOU WERE BEING TESTED.
Gordy
From: "Dennis Grant" <dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: <dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Gordy Hill (E-mail)" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: questions
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:29:32 -0400
Hi GordyThere are 2 terms which seem to be very confusing for MCI candidates. Lets put them out as questionsdefine:1. Rod plane2. Straight line path (SLP) of the rod tipDennis
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Dennis Grant Atlantic Fly Fishing School dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx
tel: 902 673-2590
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