Group...
Note Jeff's use of the word, EASILY.
Carrying the amount of line which the caster can handle well with really good control is a lot different from carrying all possible line.
As soon as the caster increases the line carried beyond the point where it is easily handled, the formula falls apart and we reach the point of diminishing returns with the cast becoming less efficient, and distance actually lost rather than gained. A contorted layout often results, as well.
Carrying more line than can be easily and efficientl handled is the most common fault I see in coaching MCI candidates who have learned to do everything else well.
For that reason, I've strongly recommended that each MCI candidate mark the line at the point where he/she can still well handle it with a marker that can be felt.....not just seen, so that there is no question as to when that point is reached during false casting prior to the delivery cast. THAT is the secret in being able to make the required distance easily with a straight layout every time.
Gordy
From: Jeff Wagner <jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
CC: bigfly@xxxxxxxxx, flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx, sobbobfish@xxxxxxx, rtab@xxxxxxx,CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx, creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx,daver@xxxxxxxxxx, dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx, captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx, ephemera@xxxxxxx, brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx,barefootj@xxxxxxx, bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx,ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx,mkreider1@xxxxxxx, martyt@xxxxxxxxxx, niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx,pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, whorwood@xxxxxxxxx, flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx,sheila@xxxxxxxxxx, scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx, cooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx, mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx, caddis@xxxxxxx,Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx, cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx, crazycharlie@xxxxxxx,croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx, DermSox@xxxxxxx,gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxx, gavin@xxxxxxxxxxx, iverson@xxxxxxxxx,jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx, jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx, kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx, plami@xxxxxxxxxxx, ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx, simbirsw@xxxxxxx, bobbeanblossomFFF@xxxxxxxxxxx,hillcathy@xxxxxxx, dnewpher@xxxxxxxxxxxx, donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx,douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx, erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx, flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx,gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx, hlhpc@xxxxxxx, jhara.carter@xxxxxxxxxxx,harveyjl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx, skifishvail@xxxxxxxx,jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx, trallag@xxxxxxx, captflyrod@xxxxxxx,mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,fraudflies@xxxxxxx, shane@xxxxxxxxx, snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Line carried / distance
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 18:06:40 -0700
Group,
I agree with Al on the line shoot. A prefect shoot would mean the shooting
distance is 50% of the line being carried. Hold 50 shoot to 75, hold 90 shoot
to 135, hold 20 shoot to 30. Most would recognize immedietly from the
distances listed above that those are not always possible, as Gordy pointed
out, and at times it may be possible to cast more than 50% of the line being
carried (using the wind, or at times casting at intermediate distances). However, working to attain those distances will increase the effeciency of the
caster tremedously whether they are after short or long shots. With longer
casting, casters that can carry 90' of line (measured from the hauling hand)
are not always the most efficient. If maximum distance is involved carrying
the most amount of line that is EASILY controlled is the most efficient, while
longer lengths of line may be possible to false a lose in speed or control is
detrimental to the shoot. As for short line shots it is easier to overcome
outside interference (in ways such as increasing line speed changing
trajectory, etc.). I would be of the opinion that working on this concept in
short to long casts is of great importance and very applicable to many, many
situations!
--
Jeff Wagner
Master Certified Fly Casting Instructor, Federation of Fly Fishers
Fly Fishing Buyer, Jax Outdoor Gear
Fly Fishing Guide, Jax Outdoor Gear
Redington
--
Jeff Wagner
Master Certified Fly Casting Instructor, Federation of Fly Fishers
Fly Fishing Buyer, Jax Outdoor Gear
Fly Fishing Guide, Jax Outdoor Gear
Redington Pro Staff
970-481-5887
jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.dhflyfishing.com
Quoting Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>:
>
>
> Randy... Fly size, line aberrations, etc. I consider as internal.
> Weather, climate and conditions outside the caster and his
>equipement are what I look at as, "external".
>
>Gordy
>
>-------------------------
>From: /"Randy Olson" <bigfly@xxxxxxxxx>/
>To: /"Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>/
>Subject: /Re: Line carried / distance/
>Date: /Sun, 05 Feb 2006 10:33:02 -0500/
>
> Gordy, I haven't been able to cast since my wreck in September so
>can't test out your questions. My broken elbow and other injuries
>are getting better for the most part, but I have pretty bad vertigo
>affecting my balance and my arms go numb when I look down.
>Anyway.... A couple of external factors would be the darkness in
>color of the surface you are casting on married with the amount of
>sunshine to create rising thermals to carry the line farther
>Humidity, altitude I don't think you mean things like fly size,
>head length, running line diameter, etc as "external" factors do
>you? If you were to put these hundreds of emails in book form, you
>would have Ernies 1700 pages beat by a mile. -Randy
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gordon Hill" To: flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx, sobbobfish@xxxxxxx,
>rtab@xxxxxxx, CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx, creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
>dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx, daver@xxxxxxxxxx, dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx,
>captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx,
>ephemera@xxxxxxx, brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx, barefootj@xxxxxxx,
>bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx,
>ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
>glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx, mkreider1@xxxxxxx, martyt@xxxxxxxxxx,
>niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx, pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, bigfly@xxxxxxxxx,
>whorwood@xxxxxxxxx, flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, sheila@xxxxxxxxxx,
>scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx, cooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
>tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Line carried / distance
>Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 14:18:04 -0500
>
> Group.... Questions to ponder: 1.) You are a good caster, and
>can easily make the 85' target using a 7 wt. rod and a WF7F line.
>It's a nice day, with no wind at all. How far are you likely to be
>able to cast when you purposely carry 50' of line out of the rod tip
>before making your presentation cast. ? 2.) Now you are limiting
>yourself to carrying only 30' of line. How far are you likely to be
>able to cast, now ? 3.) What simple formula would you use to come
>up with the approximate length of flyline that you can shoot
>relative to the amount of line carried while false casting ? (The
>approximate length of the shoot.) 4.) What external factors would
>change this ratio ?
> Gordy