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    • Re: Actual demo of ESSENTIALS

    Jeff...

    You bring up a good point which helps bolster Paul's.

    Anything in life can be taken to extreme, I suppose....even the STOP.  I have observed the overzealous caster who makes an exaggerated stop sufficient to cause shock waves and distortion of the cast.  Sometimes that appears to me to be a STOP with a, "bounce back" of the caster's hand.  Not just the secondary vibration of the rod.

    Paul's way of looking at it is that you don't necessarily need a true stop for all casting and / or all strokes.  My retort was that he's right in that for some curve casts, elliptical casts, swoops, etc you don't need or even want a stop.  I do feel, however, that for straight line casting, a crisp (not an exaggerated) stop provides an advantage for efficient transfer of power.  Especially when distance is needed.  Even this can be tempered by his statement of, "flopping it out there"....that is an example of straight line casting for short distances where you really don't need the extra efficient transfer of energy offered by a crisp stop.....or even any stop at all.

    In the end, I think we're all on the same page.

    If we go back to the study done by Al Kyte and Gary Moran, "CASTING FOR DISTANCE", we see that one of several factors that divided the elite (very best) casters from the good ones, was the use of a more positive stop.  When they used video analysis of those stops, they called attention to the amount of bounce back as a disadvantage.

                                                                     Gordy




     

    From: "JEFFERY BAREFOOT" <barefootj@xxxxxxx>
    To: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    Subject: Re: Actual demo of ESSENTIALS
    Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:33:16 -0500

    Hi Guys,
     
            On this "stop" thing........  Paul, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about.  How to deal w/the solution depends on the student in question.  I have also had students that do that exact thing.  The harder they try to stop ......... the harder they "spike" up to it.  Some will actually rebound uncontrollably quite a bit. [This can be bad] I recommend them to try to stopping a little easier.   On the other hand some students just "mush" the stop as Gordy mentions and the opposite direction has to be taken.  I'm glad you brought this up because you don't hear this sometimes common issue being discussed amongst instructors.  In my own personal casting I don?t ever consciously think of the stop....[But I know it exists and has to]  
     
        Some times a choice has to be made on whether to enter the brain on the left or the right side.  I have just read the previous post between Gordy and Paul before I submitted this one and my observation is they have definitely chosen opposite sides to get in. 
     
        This is the "Master Prep Group" the sky is the limit.  We can't worry about getting to complicated here. 
     
     
     
    Jeff Barefoot
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    Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 2:13 PM
    Subject: Re: Actual demo of ESSENTIALS

    Paul....

    Interesting points.

    On 3.)....."Short cast: short stroke, Long cast: long stroke" is, as we both know, a gross oversimplification.  For the long cast, we need a long distance travel for the rod tip. We don't need it for the short cast.  Of course, this is tip travel is produced by the combination of many things, including rod arc (casting arc), stroke length (as defined by the distance moved by the hand) and, with very long casts, the caster's body motion.  Even a step forward during the delivery stroke adds to that tip travel.

    (Incidentally, the first reference in the casting literature I could find was in J.C. Mottram's book, FLY CASTING, originally published in 1921.  So the term is a resurrection not a new coining.)

    On 6.)  One can have a whimpy stop (a mush) and still get the fly out there on target......but is that the most efficient way to do it ?......I think not.

    I simply can't make anywhere near the distance on my distance cast with a soft stop.  Just can't do it !

    You call attention to the concept of crisp application of power.  Now if we have that anywhere in the stroke except in juxtaposition to the stop, we have a spike of power.......high liklihood of a tailing loop.

    Having said that, I realize fully that there are many casts which are done well with hardly a stop, or even no real stop.  These include certain curve casts such as the corkscrew cast, the helicopter cast, and other decelerating curve casts....in fact, any purposely decelerated cast.  It certainly includes the, "no stop" of the back cast during what has been called the, "European continuous tension cast" as well as other elliptical casts including the so-called, "Belgian cast".

    As I happen to look at it, a crisp stop is an essential for so-labelled, "straight line overhead casting"......NOT ALL CASTING, BY ANY MEANS. If we look at it that way, you are absolutely CORRECT.

                                                                                         Gordy




     

    From: "Paul Arden" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    Reply-To: "Paul Arden" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    To: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    Subject: Re: Actual demo of ESSENTIALS
    Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 05:19:38 -0000
    Hi Gordy,
    I've been thinking about the essentials listed below and I don't agree that [6] is an essential.
    I think what's really happening when a caster is thinking about making an abrupt stop
    is that he's really making a crisp power application [5]. There are quite a few "stopless" casting styles
    including the TLT and Austrian style - which as you know is how most Continental Europeans cast.
    I know that runs contrary to much of what we teach but many distance casters don't use an
    abrupt stop either but integrate drift/swoop into their stroke. I just sort of flop the rod over
    and hope.
    I used to think that the stop was the most important thing in flycasting, I now think it restricts
    distance.

    I think [3] should be or include proper casting arc.

    I hope you're getting some good fishing.
    Cheers,
    Paul


    > Group...
    >
    > Following a suggestion by Molly Semenik, I have one more
    >question on the 5 (or 6) ESSENTIALS.
    >
    > In your own words, describe what you would do to demonstrate
    >clearly to a group of fly casting students, each essential. You may
    >use a fly outfit or any other teaching prop or tool.
    >
    > 1.) Straight Line Path of Rod Tip - I have a short (one foot)
    >section of a rod tip complete with tip top guide. It enables me to
    >hold the short section up to eye level and while moving it back and
    >forth as per casting strokes, I can use the other hand to clearly
    >demonstrate the straight line path by accompanying the rod tip with
    >the flat palm of my other hand.
    >
    > 2.) Eliminate Slack - When teaching, I always stress this very
    >early in the lesson. I have always liked and used Lefty's way of
    >putting this. With the line laying out about 30' with a bit of
    >slack, he points to the fly and leader and states: "Ain't nothing
    >gonna happen until that fly starts to move." After stating that
    >fact, I demonstrate how much of the back stroke is wasted pulling
    >out slack that was not removed. I also, to indicate the uselessness
    >of slack in casting and to interject a little levity as a bit of an
    >ice breaker, use the analogy of a drunk pulling a chain down the
    >street, when asked by a very proper lady, why he is pulling a chain,
    >he replies, "Lady, did you ever try pushing one of these things?"
    >
    > 3.) Short Line - Short Stroke, Long Line - Long Stroke - I use
    >analogies here also. To indicate proper stroke length, I pantomine
    >throwing a line-drive baseball, which requires a short straight line
    >throw/stroke for a close throw and a longer straight stroke for a
    >longer ball. I also have the student watch the rod as I make longer
    >strokes while adding line.
    >
    > 4.) Pause - I like to use the term -Timely Pause - With
    >beginners I try to have them temporarily adapt to a 90% stance and
    >watch their back cast straighten (almost straighten). This has a
    >dual-fold purpose, as it allows them to see the line trajectory and
    >often helps to keep their back casts up where they belong. If the
    >individual has trouble watching their back cast, I revert again to
    >one of Lefty's old methods. I ask them where they are from, and I
    >instruct them to make a back cast while pausing long enough to state
    >their name and where they are from. It works like a charm on a 30'
    >cast.
    >
    > 5.) Proper Application of Power. - When explaining power and
    >how to apply it, I have started to use a term that I believe our own
    >Gordy has coined, and that is "An accelerated acceleration to a
    >stop", I have never heard it explained better. For this all
    >important step I also use hands on guidance with permission. There
    >are many analogies for this also, such as driving in low gear then
    >shifting to second and finally high.
    > 6.) Abrupt Stop - When trying to explain the importance of the
    >stop, I allude to the elite distance caster's (Steve Rajeff) words,
    >when he was asked: What do the best casters do that other's fail to
    >do? And he replied; "They stop the rod." As to demonstrating this, I
    >again like to, with permission of course, use hands on. It is a
    >wonderful way to have the student actually feel the abruptness of
    >the required stop. Here again there are many visual aids we can
    >apply, throwing water at a wall off of a paint brush, slinging an
    >apple from a dowel rod and so on.
    > Since I have a plethora of beginners here in the Catskills, I
    >have printed out little cards (laminated) with the essentials listed
    >and hand them out at the end of a one day lesson. I tell them to put
    >them in their wallet or purse and refer to them if necessary when
    >they are practicing, and then I always add; "You do plan to
    >practice, don't you?"
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >