Jeff....
I've come to recognize two different methods of teaching with regard to style:
1. Have the students all conform to the instructor's style, realizing that after the lessons, many will change as they develop a style of their own. (Joan Wulff and others)
2. Start early allowing the students to develop style even during the first sessions. (Bill Gammel)
As we all know, advanced casters will embrace different styles to suit varying fishing conditions. They do, however, have a style preferred for most of their casting and fishing. I like to call that the caster's DEFAULT STYLE.
Gordy
From: Jeff Wagner <jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Walter Simbirski <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
CC: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: STYLE
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:16:49 -0700
Walter,
Interesting comments!
In conversations with other instructors the style I use is EXACTLY the style
they teach. If you look at my style it is not as you describe being different,
it is just exagerated. It is very similar to what Joan Wulff and many
instructors teach, just longer, more pause, etc. Actually there is very little
rotation that happens early in the stroke, the diagram sent along with it proves
that.
It seems as though we are on very similar planes when talking about teaching a
style. Style is very individual so it is good to hear you may encourage your
students to try other styles.
Actually in a conversation with Peter Lami this morning, who casts almost
exactly as I do and teaches the same style, we will be teaming to together to
co-teach the class I mentioned on style.
Thanks for your time, this is an interestin conversation.
--
Jeff Wagner
Master Certified Fly Casting Instructor, Federation of Fly Fishers
Fly Fishing Buyer, Jax Outdoor Gear
Fly Fishing Guide, Jax Outdoor Gear
Redington Pro Staff
970-481-5887
jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.dhflyfishing.com
Quoting Walter Simbirski <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>:
>Hi Jeff! This is going to be a bit long winded - bear with me.
>
>I hope I wasn't saying your style is wrong (or gave that impression)
>- far from it. Your
>style is obviously working as measured by the results. I was trying
>(probably poorly) to make
>the same point you were making - your style on the back cast (early
>rotation followed
>by extended thrust) would be discouraged by most casting instructors
>but it works
>very well for you.
>
>Your haul is continuous during the cast but because you rotate early
>and very quickly the
>haul during this part of the cast is short. It can't be any other
>way because the time
>period is very brief. You then finish your back cast with an
>extended thrust, some
>additional rotation, and the remainder of the haul. I'm sure there
>are biomechanical
>reasons for your particular style. The other thing about this is
>that you are "casting
>on the edge". You're no longer looking for ways to get 10% or 5%
>improvement
>into your casting. I'm sure that if you found a way to add 1% at
>this point you would
>be very happy. This is a basic fact in any sport where time,
>distance, or height is
>measured. There is a basic limit to what the human body can do. When
>someone is
>getting "close to the edge" of that limit then we really see
>individual styles, based
>on biomechanical differences, come in to play. Athletes with long
>arms and flexible
>joints take advantage of an exaggerated stroke. Athletes with short
>arms take
>advantage of leverage and explosive movement. Regardless of
>individual differences there
>willl always be certain things that have to remain true - muscle
>power has to be applied
>in a certain order suited to the athlete. You don't use the weaker
>muscles at the same
>time as the stronger muscles because the weaker muscles limit the
>stronger muscles. An
>example is a weight lifter cleaning a weight (lifting a barbell from
>the floor to their shoulders).
>They don't try to do this with the arms and legs simultaneously
>because the arms would
>limit the lifting power of the legs. The sequence of events is to
>start lifting with the legs bent,
>feet flat on the floor, back straight and almost upright, arms
>hanging straight down. Begin lifting with
>the legs because those are the strongest muscles. Next the back is
>used, followed by calf muscles,
>and finally the arms. There is no point starting with the arms
>because they simply couldn't get the
>weight moving - they are only capable of slowing down the affect of
>gravity and helping the
>lifter slip under the weight. Many beginners, however, start the
>lift with the arms or may
>even use the back in place of the legs (a sure way to get injured).
>You can start with your arms
>or back for lighter weights but as the weight increases this becomes
>impossible.
>
>A coach or trainer needs to help the athlete develop a style that
>makes the most efficient
>use of the athlete's natural abilities. In the example of the weight
>lifter no coach in the world
>is going to tell the athlete to start the lift with their arms but
>there are subtle differences
>regarding when and how long certain muscle groups are applied in a
>lifting movement that
>can be brought into play. Before a coach can help the athlete
>develop these attributes though
>it is necessary for the athlete to learn some basic truths. In
>weight lifting you want the start of
>the clean to be straight up - trying to lift at an angle decreases
>the effectiveness of the muscles.
>In fly casting the rod tip needs to move in a straight line and the
>loops have to be tight or
>you are not getting an efficient cast.
>
>In your case the average fly caster would look at your stroke and,
>based on what the average
>fly caster is told about casting in the one or two lessons they may
>have had, would say that you are
>doing everything wrong. Because your cast is so fast, for example,
>they would assume your
>rod tip is not travelling in a straight line (how could it be with
>an almost 180 degree casting
>arc?) or they would say you are stopping in the wrong place and
>using way too much wrist
>because all of the stuff happens way to fast to see with the naked
>eye. I had to slow down
>your video considerably before I realized much of your rotation on
>the back cast is done
>early in the cast and that what may look like drift is actually
>thrust.
>
>Now the real crux of the matter. If I, as an instructor, had a
>beginning caster that
>demonstrated similar style (ignore the haul because a beginning
>caster wouldn't be
>hauling - just concentrate on the idea of an early rotation followed
>by a long
>thrust) would I discourage him from casting this way?
>
>This is a bit of a trick question - I specifically included the word
>"discourage" because
>of its negative connotation. Personally, I would never discourage a
>student from trying
>anything but I would certainly get them to try a more "standard"
>casting style to begin
>with - i.e. open the wrist only a small amount and at the end of the
>back cast, not at the start.
>Students should be encouraged to experiment and find what works for
>them but I believe that
>they should first learn the basic casting stroke.
>
>Sorry for the long windedness.
>
>Cheers
>
>Walter
>
>
>