[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
  • Thread Index
  • Date Index
  • Subject Index
  • Re: Distance style



    Group,
    
    I turn my guides 90 degrees to the inside (to the left for a right handed
    caster) with my reel pointing down.  The reason for this is less friction when
    
    I am in my furthest back cast position. When I make my cast I have some slight
    axial twist to the right.  The line drags across the blank from the back cast
    position to about 1/3 of the way through the forward stroke if I do not have
    the guides twisted.  I have made many practice casts and measured many casts
    with the guides straight down and angles both out and in.  With my style I
    actually consistently add several feet to my cast by turning them to the
    inside.
    
    Jeff Wagner
    
    Master Certified Fly Casting Instructor, Federation of Fly Fishers
    Fly Fishing Buyer, Jax Outdoor Gear
    Fly Fishing Guide, Jax Outdoor Gear
    Redington Pro Staff
    
    
    Quoting Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>:
    
    
    
    
      Jerry....
    
      After sending my answer to you, I thought we'd share this with the
    Group.
    
      I have heard of this being done and providing an advantage.  When I
    tried it, myself, however......I was not convinced that it made any
    real difference.   I am not a competition distance caster and perhaps
    it's because I don't generate the tremendous line speeds that these
    folks do.
    
      .........Also makes me wonder if this could be looked at as an
    alternative style to making the axial rod twist during the
    presentation shoot as I described earlier, today. (???)
    
    
    Gordy
    
    -------------------------
     From: _jerry puckett _
    To: _Gordon Hill _
    Subject: _Re: Distance style_
    Date: _Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:32:16 -0700 (PDT)_
    
    Walter and Gordon, To reduce friction even futher some of the top
    distance casters align there guides at a 90 degree angle to prevent
    rod  slap and thus redure friction even furthur.  Please note this is
    only possible with a four piece rod.  Do you have any insight and
    comment on this? Jerry
    _GORDON HILL _ wrote:
    
      Walter....
    
      Raising the casting arm and pointing the rod at just above the
    distance target during followthrough after loop formation is an
    effective way to reduce guide and tip-top friction during the shoot,
    as you point out.
    
    
    Gordy
    
    -------------------------
     From: _Walter Simbirski _
    To: _Gordon Hill _
    Subject: _Re: Gordie's email list?_
    Date: _Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:06:31 -0600_
    
    Gordy - You showed me the Waterworks reel at the conclave - mighty
    impressive.    I'm also not a fan of the wire loop tip tops.  The tip
    top and stripper guides are probably the ones where the line makes the
    most contact. For the stripper guides we recognize this and use guides
    that provide more surface area for the contact and are very slick. At
    the tip top the concentration has been to keep the tip top as light
    as possible because of the affect of tip mass on the rod speed,
    energy transfer, etc. The result is we have a titanium wire embedded
    in an aluminum or stainless steel sleeve. This leads to  the "V" you
    mentioned which causes problems. Also we end up with the line sliding
    over a very small surface area.    When we do a distance cast we point
    the rod in the direction of the line after the stop to reduce the
    friction of the line sliding over the guides but for much of our
    casting the rod ends up at some other angle relative to the line and
    the line makes a very abrupt direction change as it slides over the
    wire loop of the tip top.   Cheers   Walter  ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE
    -----  FROM: Gordon Hill  TO: simbirsw@xxxxxxx ; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ;
    sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ; CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ;
    creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ;
    dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ;
    keysjake@xxxxxxx ; barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx
    ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ; niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ; whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ; scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx  CC: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ;
    Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ; croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ;
    bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx ;
    jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx ; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ;
    jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ;
    mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx  SENT:
    Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:10 PM SUBJECT: Re: Gordie's email list?
    
      Walter....
    
      I agree with you.
    
      For quite a while, now, I've been making up my fly rods with REC
    "RECOIL" guides.  The whole set weighs about the same as one standard
     Fuji stripping guide.  Also.....they don't rust at the entry to the
    epoxy/wrapping the way every other guide we've tried does when used
    repeatedly in salt water.
    
      REC titanium/Ni tip tops need re designing (in my opinion).  They
    make 2 types......one with an aluminum sleeve for light wt. and
    another with a stainless steel sleeve.  Both use titanium wire for
    the loop.  Problem is that the loop insertion into the sleeve forms a
    "V" which I think can result in some increased friction against the
    line when under pressure of max load.  The aluminum sleeve is
    light....but corrodes in the salt.
    
      When teaching, practicing, or demonstrating where I might be
    casting all day long......and not fighting fish,  I prefer to use the
    Waterworks "Purist" ULA reel.  My favorite is the "P-3" model.  It's
    made of aluminum and titanium, weighs very little, and the ultra
    large arbor doesn't kink the line.  I'd like to see a machined Ti/ni
    tip top.
    
      Unfortunately the company has discontinued that model....but they
    still make the "P-2" model which is even lighter, though a bit
    smaller.
    
      A good alternative, is the Lamson Litespeed #3. (This is also made
    by the same company.)
    
    
          Gordy
    
    -------------------------
     From: _Walter Simbirski _
    To: _Gordon Hill _
    Subject: _Re: Gordie's email list?_
    Date: _Tue, 30 Aug 2005 00:26:03 -0600_
    
     "I SUSPECT THAT THE ROD MAKERS WHO SAY THAT THERE IS AN OPTIMUM
    NUMBER OF GUIDES FOR EACH ROD LENGTH AND DESIGN ARE CORRECT.  TOM
    WHITE POINTS OUT, THAT THE HEIGHT OF THE STRIPPER GUIDE FROM THE
    BLANK MAY WELL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE DIAMETER OF IT\'S RING."
    YEP - I HAVE TO AGREE ON THAT.  ANOTHER THING WE ARE SEEING IS THE
    MOVE TO SINGLE FOOT GUIDES. THE LATEST DESIGNS USE VERY LIGHT
    TITANIUM FRAMES WITH VERY SLICK INSERTS. THESE NEW GUIDES ARE ALMOST
    AS LIGHT AS SNAKE GUIDES AND CUT THE NUMBER OF REQUIRED THREAD WRAPS
    AND AMOUNT OF EPOXY IN HALF. THE RESULT IS A ROD THAT IS LIGHTER FOR
    BETTER ENERGY TRANSFER TO THE LINE, HAS A MORE NATURAL ACTION/FEEL
    (THE DOUBLE FOOT GUIDES CREATE STIFF SPOTS ON THE ROD), AND EXCELLENT
    SHOOTABILITY BECAUSE OF THE SLICKNESS OF THE RINGS. ANOTHER BENEFIT IS
    THAT THE RINGS CAN BE ROTATED IN THE FRAMES THUS INCREASING THEIR
    LIFETIME SIGNIFICANTLY.   IN MY MIND THE NEXT SIGNIFICANT ADVANCES IN
    FLY CASTING EQUIPMENT WILL BE IMPROVED GUIDES AND REELS. THE ROD
    BLANKS ARE ALREADY VERY LIGHT AND VERY FAST. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A
    VERY FEW CASTERS THERE ISN\'T MUCH POINT IN MAKING THEM FASTER.
    ADVANCES IN FLY LINES ARE PROBABLY GOING TO SLOW DOWN AS WELL -
    SLICKNESS, MEMORY, TAPERS ARE GETTING INTO AREAS OF DIMINISHING
    RETURNS. WITH ALL OF THE ADVANCES IN RODS AND LINES WE ARE STILL
    USING (FOR THE MOST PART) PRETTY ANTIQUATED GUIDES. TOP QUALITY RODS
    USE GUIDES THAT PRODUCE A SOUND LIKE SANDPAPER WHEN SHOOTING LINE.
    EVEN WITH LINES WITH AST AND SIMILAR LEVELS OF SLICKNESS WE STILL
    NEED TO CLEAN AND LUBRICATE THE LINE AND GUIDES REGULARLY OTHERWISE
    THE ABILITY TO SHOOT LINE AND DOUBLE HAUL IS AFFECTED. IN ADDITION,
    THE GUIDES (ALONG WITH WRAPS AND EPOXY) PROVIDE A SIGNIFICANT PORTION
    OF THE WEIGHT IN TODAY\'S RODS.    THE OTHER AREA OF IMPROVEMENT IN
    CASTING EQUIPMENT IS THE REEL. WE TAKE A 3 OUNCE ROD, ADD ONE OUNCE
    OF LINE, AND ADD A 5 OUNCE REEL. NOT HARD TO FIGURE WHERE THE
    GREATEST IMPROVEMENT IN WEIGHT REDUCTION HAS TO COME FROM.   CHEERS
    ----- Original Message -----   FROM: Gordon Hill  TO: simbirsw@xxxxxxx
    ; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ;
    CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ; keysjake@xxxxxxx ;
    barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ;
    niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ;
    whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ;
    scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ; tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    CC: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ;
    croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx
    ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ;
    jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ;
    thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx
    ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx
    ; ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx ;
    skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ;
    mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx  SENT:
    Monday, August 29, 2005 8:42 AM SUBJECT: Re: Gordie's email list?
    
      Walter.....
    
      You bring up some good points.....let's share.
    
      My comments in bold type in your text.
    
                                                 Gordy
    
    -------------------------
     From: _Walter Simbirski _
    To: _Gordon Hill _
    Subject: _Re: Gordie's email list?_
    Date: _Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:32:18 -0600_
    
    Hey Gordy - thanks for the feed back. I'm also glad to hear main body
    of the storm has moved on. Hope you didn't sustain significant damage.
      Guess I did okay for the 15 minute answers. :)  YOU DID WELL !   I
    actually realized a couple of more glaring errors after I hit the
    send button.   On questions 1 and 4 I think Gary Borger (and probably
    others - I just heard it from him first) sums it up pretty well when
    he says the cast is over as soon as the line  begins to move faster
    than the rod top. Anything else is a mend.     YES.....IN FACT ONE
    DEFINITION OF A MEND IS, " MANIPULATION OF THE LINE IN THE AIR OR ON
    THE WATER, AFTER THE CAST."  LOOKING AT IT THAT WAY, ONE CAN CONSIDER
    THE SO-CALLED "REACH CAST" AS A CAST WITH A REACH MEND......OR A
    "CAST-MEND".  THE SAME THING IS TRUE OF MANY CURVED CASTS DURING
    WHICH THE FLY IS DIRECTED IN ONE DIRECTION DURING THE TRUE
    CAST......AND THE BELLY OF THE LINE DIRECTED IN THE OPPOSITE
    DIRECTION SO QUICKLY AFTERWARD THAT IT ALL APPEARS TO OCCCUR AT THE
    STOP.  IN TRUTH, PART OF IT HAPPENED JUST PRIOR TO THE STOP, AND THE
    REMAINDER AFTERWARD......SO I\'D CALL THOSE CASTS, "CAST-MENDS" TO BE
    TECHNICALLY CORRECT.   We can think of extenuating circumstances (e.g.
    a very weak cast of just a few inches or millimeters or rod tip
    movement followed by a cast in the same direction with a smooth long
    stroke) but this is just splitting hairs. The cast is over when the
    line speed exceeds the rod tip speed. In a well executed cast this
    will occur at the RSP. When the cast is over the line will begin to
    fall and the loop is formed.   I've been thinking about this one for
    a while and wasn't quite sure if the rod tip could exert additional
    force on the line after RSP. Your explanation clears that up very
    well - after RSP the tip (and hence the line) has achieved maximum
    speed, after that it is decelerating and is, therefore, moving slower
    than the line. The cast is over.   A GOOD QUESTION.  AFTER RSP, WE
    HAVE COUNTERFLEX AND REBOUND.  COUNTERFLEX, IF GREAT (AS IN THE CASE
    OF A LIMBER OR SOFT ACTION ROD USED FOR DISTANCE CASTING) CAN TEAR
    THAT LOOP OPEN TO MAKE IT WIDER THAN IT WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN.
    THAT\'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO MAKE REALLY
    TIGHT LOOPS WITH THESE RODS.  WE SHOULD ALL HEED STEVE RAJEFF\'S
    COMMENT THAT A PERFECTLY TIMED UPWARD THRUST AT THE STOP CAN HAVE THE
    EFFECT OF MINIMIZING THIS ACTION OF COUNTERFLEX ON THE LOOP AS ONE WAY
    OF FORMING REALLY SHARP LOOPS.    On question 5 a - Removing slap is
    correct (no debate on that) but many custom rod builders recommend
    adding one or two guides more than the standard formulae  provided by
    the rod manufaturers as they find they can shoot line farther. Adding
    more than one or two guides increases friction significantly and
    reduces the ability to shoot line. The general explanation the rod
    builders give is that it reduces friction but, again, I think you
    have a better answer. I think it reduces rod slap and helps align the
    line (so it isn't wrapped around the rod or dragging along the rod)
    for shooting. If we look at the physics involved - more guides means
    more leading edges and hence more friction in all cases. Fuji Concept
    guides would tend to favour the explanation of aligning the line for
    optimum line shooting.   I SUSPECT THAT THE ROD MAKERS WHO SAY THAT
    THERE IS AN OPTIMUM NUMBER OF GUIDES FOR EACH ROD LENGTH AND DESIGN
    ARE CORRECT.  TOM WHITE POINTS OUT, THAT THE HEIGHT OF THE STRIPPER
    GUIDE FROM THE BLANK MAY WELL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE DIAMETER OF
    IT\'S RING.   Another question I've been thinking about is "when does
    line that is shot actually shoot?" - immediately? after the loop fully
    unrolls? A combination of the two? I believe, by watching videos and
    trying it out for myself, that the answer is a combination of the
    two. The physical models I've seen for loop size vs drag assume that
    the rod end  of the line is fixed for the analysis. I think this is
    too much of a oversimplification because most people shoot line on a
    large percentage of their casts.    ALMOST ALL OF THE LINE IS SHOT
    BEFORE THE LOOP FULLY UNFURLS.  AN EXCEPTION MAGNIFIED BY MARK
    SEDOTTI\'S INCREDIBLE CASTS WITH HEAVILY WEIGHTED LARGE FLIES, IS THE
    SITUATION WHERE THE CASTER HAS GENERATED GREAT LOOP SPEED WITH A
    WEIGHTED FLY.  HERE, THERE IS SOME DEGREE OF MOMENTUM YIELDING A
    SMALL AMOUNT OF ADDITIONAL DISTANCE AFTER THE LOOP HAS COMPLETELY
    UNROLLED.  THE VIDEO\'S I\'VE SEEN HAVE SHOWN NO ADDITIONAL SHOOT
    AFTER THE LOOP HAS UNFURLED WHEN A DRY FLY OR YARN IS USED.
                                              GORDY   Cheers   Walter
    ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE -----  FROM: Gordon Hill  TO: simbirsw@xxxxxxx
    ; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ;
    CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ; keysjake@xxxxxxx ;
    barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ;
    niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ;
    whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ;
    scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ; tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    CC: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ;
    croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx
    ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ;
    jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ;
    thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
    ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx
    ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx
    ; ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx ;
    skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ;
    mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
    fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx  SENT:
    Sunday, August 28, 2005 4:34 PM SUBJECT: Re: Gordie's email list?
    
      Hi, Walter....
    
      Note my answers in bold type inserted in your text:
    
                                                             Gordy
    
    -------------------------
    
      From: _WALTER/SUE SIMBIRSKI _
    To: _Gordon Hill _
    Subject: _Re: Gordie's email list?_
    Date: _Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:45:15 -0600_
    Gordy! Thanks for getting me on your list. I'll see if I can answer
    your test in 15 minutes or less
    (not to be a smart ass but because I'm taking a break at work) :)
    1. As soon as force is no longer applied to the fly line to
    counteract gravity the
    line begins to fall.
    
      GRAVITY IS ALWAYS AT WORK.  IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE STOP, SOME DEGREE
    OF FALLING STARTS.  IT FALLS DRAMATICALLY FASTER WHEN FORWARD MOTION
    OF THE LINE/LEADER CEASES AT THE POINT WHERE THE LOOP HAS FULLY
    UNROLLED.
    2. To supply energy for the cast.
    
      YES....ALTHOUGH SOME OF THAT ENERGY CAN COME FROM A HAUL MADE BY
    THE OPPOSITE HAND. THE PRIMARY DUTY OF THE ROD HAND IS THE EXECUTION
    OF THE MECHANICS OF THE CAST.
    3. - also applies energy when hauling
    - keeps line from getting tangled
    - aids in turning over the fly (triple haul)
    - remove slack from the casting system during the cast
    - strip in line when fish runs toward you
    - I also use it to crank the reel (but I'm not one of those strange
    people that like to
    cast and crank with the same hand)
    
      GOOD ANSWER. INCLUDES HAULS, CONTROL OF SLACK, RETRIEVING LINE, AND
    MAINTAINANCE OF TENSION (BY MINIMIZING SLACK).  MIGHT ADD THE
    STRIP-STRIKING OF FISH, TOO.
    4. I would tell a student that the loop begins to form at the soon as
    the stop is made.
    I tell myself that the loop begins to form as soon as I begin my
    casting stroke.
    
      NO.  THE LOOP DOESN'T BEGIN TO FORM UNTIL THE LINE BEGINS TO
    OVERTAKE THE ROD TIP IN THE DIRECTION OF THE CAST.  THAT OCCURS
    EXACTLY AT THE RSP. (ROD STRAIGHT POSITION) WHICH AS AFTER THE POINT
    THAT THE HAND AND ROD BUTT SECTION STOP.  INTERESTINGLY, IT IS DURING
    THIS BRIEF TIME THAT THE ROD TIP IS MOVING FASTEST.
    
      WHEN YOU FIRST BEGIN YOUR STROKE, YOU ARE PROVIDING AT LEAST ONE
    INGREDIENT NEEDED TO FORM A LOOP, AND THAT IS LINE
    ACCELERATION.....BUT YOU DO NEED THE RSP AFTER YOUR STOP OR NO LOOP
    (OR A POOR SEMBLENCE OF SAME AT BEST) WILL FORM.
    5. a - reduce friction when shooting line
    b - make sure the rod bends uniformly so it doesn't break
    
      IF WE HAD MORE GUIDES.....SAY ABOUT 40 OF THEM ON A ROD, WE'D HAVE
    MORE FRICTION, NOT LESS. WHEN CASTING, THE GUIDES PROVIDE CONTROL OF
    THE LINE SO IT DOESN'T SLAP THE ROD AND WRAP AROUND IT.  TO THE
    EXTENT THAT IT DOES THIS, HOWEVER, THEY DO MINIMIZE THE FRICTION
    YIELDED BY THAT SCENARIO......SO YOU ARE NOT WRONG.
    
      YOUR b.) ANSWER IS CORRECT.  ALL OF THE FRICTION OCCURS AT THE ROD
    TIP IN FIGHTING A FISH AND THIS PLACES TREMENDOUS LOADS ON THE TIP
    SECTION .  WHEN I TRIED THIS, IT ACTUALLY PULLED THE GLUED TIP RIGHT
    OFF ON ONE OCCASION.
    6. To quote an advertisement for the Marrayat Plus "dual mode" fly
    reel.
    The meaning of "dual mode" is that there are two main functions:
    1) Anti-reverse: The handle doesn't turn when line goes out. (Even
    when
    cranking the handle, the line can continue to go out!)
    2) Direct Drive: While cranking, the handle and spool are fixed and
    rotate
    together, achieving a high retrieval force, just like any other
    traditional
    fly reel.
    Switching from Anti-reverse to Direct Drive can be done any time,
    simply
    by squeezing the two pads that are inside the handle.
    
      CORRECT, WITH THAT MODEL.  WITH OTHER DUAL  MODE REELS, THE REEL IS
    AN ANTI REVERSE DEVICE UNTIL THE ANGLER STARTS TO GRASP THE HANDLE AND
    TURN.  THEN IT BECOMES A DIRECT DRIVE REEL.
    7. An S-shaped braided loop held together by a single strand of pole
    elastic under tension
    attached to the end of a fly line to act as a strike indicator. Used
    in Czech nymphing.
    
      YES.  ALSO USED BY SOME TO REDUCE LEADER SHOCK WHEN USING 8x
    TIPPETS.
    8. Also called dapping. Used in Loch and river fishing. Two rods are
    tied together with
    a length of line. The fly is suspended from this line using a leader.
    The fly is not
    cast but is dapped on the surface of the water to attract the fish.
    
      YES.  THE TERM IS ALSO APPLIED TO THE USE OF A WIND RESISTANT
    LEADER SECTION LIKE YARN TO "KITE" THE FLY OUT ON THE WATER.
    9. The distance wind blows over open water. The longer the fetch the
    more powerful the
    waves.
    
      GOOD ANSWER !  MOST DID NOT GET THIS ONE RIGHT.
    10. Joining two lengths of monofilament line such as when building a
    leader.
    
      YES.
    
           YOU DID VERY WELL, WALTER !
    
    
           GORDY
    
    -------------------------
     From: _Gordon Hill _
    To: _simbirsw@xxxxxxx[9]_
    Subject: _Re: Gordie's email list?_
    Date: _Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:41:58 -0400_
    
      Walter....
    
      Here's a list of questions I sent out to our Group.  Several did
    well.....only one got 100 percent.  Give it a try.....ok to consult
    your books.
    
      1.)  You have just made a forward cast to a STOP.  When does the
    line/loop begin to fall ?
    
      2.) What is the primary duty of the rod hand ?
    
      3.) Name 5 duties of the line hand.
    
      4.) Your student asks you when the loop actually begins to form in
    relation to his casting stroke.  What do you tell him ?
    
      5.) What is the main function of the guides on a fly rod ?
    
           a.) When casting ?
    
           b.) When fighting a fish ?
    
      (#5 can be a brain twister and a half.  Dennis Grant and I
    discussed this at the conclave, but I didn't gain a clear idea about
    it until I omitted stringing up through the guides and ran the line
    through the tip top alone.)
    
      6.) What is a DUAL MODE FLY REEL ?
    
      7.)  What is BUNGEE BUTT ?
    
      8.)  What is meant by BLOW LINE FISHING ?
    
      9.) What is "FETCH" .
    
      10.) Give one good use for a double nail knot.
    
      Take the plunge and give it a stab......it's fun.  Go ahead and use
    your books for any answer.
    
    
       Gordy
    
    -------------------------
     From: _WALTER/SUE SIMBIRSKI _
    To: _hillshead@xxxxxxxx
    Subject: _Re: Gordie's email list?_
    Date: _Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:53:46 -0600_
    Gordy - you there?
    Walter
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    Date: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:47 am
    Subject: Re: Gordie's email list?
    
    Hi Walter
    
    Gordy had a problem with you first email here is gordys address.
    We'll try again
    hillshead@xxxxxxx
    Dennis
    
    
    Dennis - did you get my email about getting on Gordie's email
    list? Don't want to be
    pushy - I want
    to see if he can help me get a set of orthopedic waders.   :-)
    Cheers
    Walter
    PS - I've been working on the back cast. I'm getting much
    better with short casts. Just
    got to work
    on getting control when I have more line in the air. Thanks to you
    and Gordie for your
    help!
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Links:
    ------
    [2] mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx
    [3] mailto:hillshead@xxxxxxx
    [4] mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx
    [5] mailto:hillshead@xxxxxxx
    [6] mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx
    [7] mailto:hillshead@xxxxxxx
    [8] mailto:hillshead@xxxxxxx
    [9] mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx