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Walter & Group...
>From Mike Heritage:
Sorry Gordy, I haven't been keeping up to speed on this subject but after a quick review I have noticed (and I apologize if it has been mentioned) that there has been no mention of the stop in relation to roll casts. It must still be remembered that it is still vital to create a loop. I too often see the caster trying to throw or bowl (as in cricket) the line out rather than cast it. This just creates an inefficient convex tip path. I emphasize keeping the rod tip behind the casting hand for as long as possible (drag) before rotating to a stop (pop and stop). Another thing I see is the caster following through with the rod tip and reducing the tension in the rod leg which will often kill the cast or reduce it's potential.
Mike
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[GH] Mike,
Roll casts are poorly made when the forward stop is "mushy" for reasons you have given.
If you go through our many "Casting practice" messages carefully, you will see that the stop hasn't been ignored.
The "STOP" is very important when roll casting as well as distance casting. With practice as with teaching, I think it is a good idea to practice ever more crisp (sudden) stop sequences.
As I think you may recall, we've had sessions many months ago on the "stop" some of which had resulted in fiery rhetoric and heated discussions as some of our physicists pointed out that no human caster can actually make a truly hard stop as defined as "instantaneous cessation of all motion".
Floyd Dean gave a demonstration of a literal hard stop at a Conclave several years ago as he made casts ending with his rod butt striking a rigidly implanted steel bar. The Rod vibrated and resulting layouts were a mess.
Despite the opinions of some of our scientists who objected to our use of terms like, "crisp stop", "hard stop", etc., it remains true that the emphasis on a stop made as rapidly as possible has been a very useful concept for casters and students as well as those of us who teach them.
In discussions between instructors, many of us have been using the term, "stop sequence" to describe the rapid deceleration of the rod needed for most efficient casting. For students, I still say, STOP.
Gordy
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[GH] Bruce Richards answers my question on how delay of rotation during casting practice seems to result in tighter loops:
"[GH] Bruce Richards has shown that delaying rotation helps yield a tight loop. I've never been sure exactly why .... unless, when I take his advice and do that, I have less time to screw it up (?????)."
Hi Gordy,
Interesting subject, and one that is commonly misinterpreted. First, "delaying rotation" is relative. Delaying something means it is done later than the "normal" time. In fly casting this would mean that rotation would start after what most consider the normal time, which would be just as the fly line is coming straight. Obviously, delaying beyond that point will result in the line falling more than we want, and slack.
What very commonly happens in fly casting is that most casters start to rotate TOO EARLY, we see that all the time when analyzing casts electronically. The rotation starts a bit too early, and is slow initially, the caster is subconsciously waiting for the line to straighten. In reality, this is subtle creep, and it is VERY common even among pretty good casters.
So, when someone actually waits for the line to straighten properly before moving the rod at all, it appears as if rotation was delayed. It is much more accurate to say that most casters start to rotate the rod too early. This makes it very difficult to make a great loop. The rod tip rotates forward slowly which results in narrowing the casting arc, often leading to tailing loops. Or, the caster can adjust where s/he stops the rod to avoid the tail, but trajectory will be low, or the loop will be a bit too big. Starting rotation earlier, or later, than ideal will negatively affect the loop.
Most of the talk about late rotation is related to distance casting. What people see is a caster "dragging" the rod and line, to straighten the line before rotation. This often starts just before the line comes straight and may consist of 18-24" of hand translation before rotation starts. This certainly appears to be a delay of rotation, but in reality is just a motion that happens before rotation should start.
If rotation starts before, or after, the ideal time (which is when the fly line comes straight), some slack will be the result and that will affect the loop negatively. Of course, this all assumes that we're judging from the "ideal" time to start rotation. There just isn't much wiggle room in that.
I hope this makes sense.
Best,
Bruce
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[GH] Bruce,
Thanks for putting this in perspective.
Gordy
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>From Guy Manning:
An instructor, especially an MCI, should be able to evaluate whether they have the best equipment for the job at hand. The rules allow up to a 7 weight with any commercial floating line, regardless of taper design. I find that many candidates don’t take the line choice into consideration when gearing up for the exam. If you are trying to hit 50 feet or more on a roll cast there are lines that will do it with ease, and lines that will make you work way too hard to get there.
When I first started the sport at LBCC I got involved with tournament casting as a way to speed up my learning curve. One of the ACA games, Trout Fly, requires a roll cast to a target 55 feet away. During my initial months I had a hard time hitting the 55 foot target with a roll cast. Then I tried John Van Der Hoof's gear and found I could roll cast the distance with ease. The difference was, I was using a standard Trout taper (38 feet) and he was using a Steelhead Taper (62 feet). It made all the difference in the world. Keep in mind we were not allowed to haul the line, just shake slack out of the tip to what we thought was the correct distance. Using a 9 wt Steelhead taper I have been able to roll cast a bass bug 65 to 70 feet.
Quiz: Which of the 5 essentials can you break and still perform a good roll cast? A hint was given above.
Guy Manning
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[GH] Guy,
Let's see if some of our members can answer your quiz question. Hopefully, followed by a brief statement as to their reason for the choice.
As I see it, the fly line is the HEART of the system !
You have pointed out, that when practicing roll casting, it makes a huge difference.
Why? Tom White used to put it very simply: "Skinny line can't turn over fat line !".
Putting it another way: When practicing distance roll casting, the line you choose must have a mass profile such that some of the head of the line must be available in your D-loop to turn over the line in front of it. If your D-loop contains only low-mass, thin running line, you will not be successful.
Gordy
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