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Walter & Group...
From Alain Laprade:
Gordy, our synergy is unbelievable, last nightI was reading that book of Jim Chapralis, that is wife send me, super good for a candidate to MCI. And now about the idea of ending a practice session on a good note, again in Golf this is what all pros are doing; a last good shut in the range and a super, often small, putt on the practice green.
Alain
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[GH] My thanks goes to Guy Manning for providing it.
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>From Pat Blackwell:
Hi Gordy,
I watched the Peter Hayes video several times. A wonderful video, his easy manner of teaching has to ease a lot of tension a student may have.
When I went out and practiced what he was demonstrating; I found that if I kept the rod tip low to the ground when dragging the line back behind me this worked well on a short cast of approximately 30 ft. However when making a longer cast with about 45 feet of line out it did not work at all. When I raised the rod tip up as high as possible and positioned the line and then moved the rod to where my hand was about waist high with the rod canted from just above parallel to the ground to about a 60 degree angle I was able to make reasonable cast. I believe the reason for this was I was able to put more line behind me thus more weight and still stay within the limits of the masters test as to how far behind us we could have the line.
When making the cast with about 45 feet of line out, I tried different hand positions before rotation just to see what happened. When I rotated with my hand even with my waist, the loop was not well formed and the line piled up around 20 feet in front of me. When I extended my hand forward to about half way between my waist and full extension I didn't have a good loop but was able to cast the line with some piling of the line tip and leader. When rotating after I ran out of arm I had better loops with the line straitening out most of the time. I think some of this has to do with having more line, thus more weight behind the rod tip before rotation.
I was using a 7 weight line with a tapered leader on grass without a casting tool. I still have a ways to go before I'm satisfied with the cast but thanks to this thread and Peter's video I believe I'm on the right path.
Gordy, I'm not sure I agree with Steve Smith on the switch cast, we have to allow for the D loop to form and the leader to touch down. Unless we are making a very short cast there must be some pause regardless of how short that pause may be.
Regards,
Pat Blackwell
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From Frank Harford:
Gordy
Just one point about slack and the roll cast .I agree that it's great for taking out slack between the anchor point and the fly but if you have slack between the rod tip and the anchor point you will have a poor cast , having used some of the stroke to restore tension ,
Frank
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[GH] Frank,
True. Best to practice with as little slack in the system as possible.
Gordy
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>From Mike Heritage:
Which essential can we roll cast without. If we can't make a conventional pick up because there is slack we roll cast, the set up of the roll cast will re-create the tension we need to make a cast in the D loop. With regard to the pause I think that is vital as well, especially with people learning the static roll cast. A lot of the time they rush the set up and make the cast without pausing. I tell them they can take all day setting up and once they are in position to make the cast to wait, look at their hand/arm/rod cant etc and then think about what they are going to do next. If there is a wind blowing the D loop out I will get them to lay their rod further back and lower the tip.
Sorry to go back to the stop but I had problems with my students not getting it when I used to say stop the rod. The rod doesn't stop, the tip keeps accelerating up to RSP. I now emphasis stopping the hand to allow the rod to unload and give back some of the energy we have created during the stroke. I also try and get them to understand how to focus that unloading with regard to creating a loop.
Mike
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From Kirk Eberhard:
Hi Gordy,
Jim Smith's post brings up a question about definitions.
Dynamic roll vs switch cast. Aren't these different casts?
The line is lifted from the water surface and repositioned during a switch cast/jump roll.
Thanks,
Kirk Eberhard
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[GH] Kirk,
Most of us do see these as very different casts. I look at the "dynamic roll cast" (sometimes called a "live line roll cast" as a standard roll cast made without a stop to allow the D loop to be static (still) behind the caster. No true lift and repositioning of the anchor on the water.
The switch cast (jump roll), in my opinion, requires a lot more practice in order to achieve the proper position of the repositioning. For me, that was a segment of the cast which seemed to be an advanced skill.
As you know better than I do, that switch cast is used by many two-handed casting instructors as a prelude or stepping stone to learning the Spey moves, because it can be learned prior to making the change of direction casts.
Gordy
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From Guy Manning:
Re: Comments by Steve Smith and Gordy
I don’t agree that a switch cast is a dynamic roll cast. My view is that a switch cast is a spey cast, and is a separate animal from the roll cast. Why? Because that is what the local cultures of LBCC and GGACC taught. I have a tendency to stick with their cultures because their knowledge bases have a long communal history behind them.
I had never heard the term switch cast until I took up spey casting around 1997. It wasn’t until a decade or so ago that people began talking about switch casts when single handed spey became popular, then they confused the two. As the CICP program grew a number of people began using the terms interchangeably because the casts looked the same to the untrained eye. I have met people who didn’t realize a roll cast was ever done with a static line, some still confuse the two.
I will stick with one essential broken in this case. J
Guy Manning
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[GH] This is why we need definitions. Hard to argue well without them.
I've witnessed an MCI candidate being criticized when he was asked for a "definition" of a Spey cast and failed to include the phrase, "change of direction". That lead examiner, didn't consider a switch cast a member of the family of Spey casts.
Gordy
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From Gary Davison:
Gordy,
Just my observation when it comes to the dynamic roll cast as Steve has provided.
Usually on a dynamic roll cast I usually pull all or most of the slack out of the system when making a full tension cast. (If and when done correctly on my part). So that would be in keeping with essential #2 Slack to a minimum.
So I would meet that essential.
However the Pause may be the one essential that some casters may see as one that is not needed.
Which all depends on your style of making the cast.
Some may feel they do not make a pause in the cast especially if they make the oval cast full tension in the Belgium style casting around and over.
However when I make the cast coming back in a more straight line 180 degree angle from the target for the dynamic roll cast. I feel plus make a slight pause on the dynamic roll cast.
So to be objective I would like to say it depends (Dennis, Gordy & Steve) on you with regards to the pause on the dynamic roll cast.
I love dynamics when it enters fly casting!
Thanks Steve!
Gary
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