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Walter & Group...
[GH] From Walter Simbirski. Lots to cover, here :
Hi Gordy,
Here are some videos made by Aitor Coteron that show what happens when a short, sharp haul is applied at various points in the casting stroke and completed before the rod tip reaches RSP:
I think these videos make it clear that hauling affects the rod load which in turn affects the tip path and we all know the affect of tip path on loop shape. Bruce has made a very good case for ending the haul at RSP and has backed it up with empirical evidence.
I've always believed that peak hauling speed should happen at RSP and that after reaching peak hauling speed the line hand should probably be allowed to follow through, i.e. there should not be a conscious effort to stop the line hand. But if we watch Aitor's videos we can see that the haul ends when the caster runs out of arm so there is no conscious effort to stop the hand and there is little or no follow through.
Stopping the line hand just happens naturally when casting for distance and ideally this should happen when the line hand is at it's maximum speed and this should coincide with peak rod tip speed (RSP or a few milliseconds before RSP).
If not casting for distance the haul will end before the caster runs out of arm but for greatest efficiency the peak hauling speed should happen at RSP and follow through should be minimal except on the presentation cast because follow through will happen after releasing the line on the presentation cast.
On the question of why does hauling seem to make tighter loops I would say that in all but extreme cases I can make the same tight loops without hauling as I can with hauling. What do I change in that case to make tighter loops?
On the topic of loop size and counterflex here is another one by Lasse Karlsson that gives you an idea of how counterflex affects loop formation:
Cheers!
Walter
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[GH] Walter:
These are great video depictions of what happens when a short, sharp haul is applied at different points during the casting stroke to yield tailing loops at varying distances.
They also provide a picture of some increase in rod bend as these hauls are applied with great force over a short time interval. However, they don't really show how much rod bend would increase with the use of a long smooth haul compared with the rod bend achieved with the same cast (same action with the rod arm) made with no haul.
Lasse's video does show the effect of relative amounts of counterflex on the loop. In the case of the more flexible rod producing much greater counterflex, we see that some of the effect is reduced during rebound, but not enough to tighten the loop much.
I went out and performed your "experiment". That helped a lot. *
* "- Try loading a rod without line. How deeply can you load it?
- Now string up the rod lay out a bunch of line on the ground and try loading the rod with hauling only (no use of the rod hand except to hold the rod stationary). How deeply can you load the rod through hauling only?"
Gordy
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>From Tony Loader. (I added the q & a ) :
"10. When making a back cast prior to your delivery forward cast when distance casting, at what point do you stop your haul ?
Bob's answer - On a double haul, at the end of drift."
Hi Gordy,
Bob's response makes sense to me if I read hauling as including the "give back" of line after the pull.
By the way, in relation to how hauling can tighten loops, all other things being equal, it seems to me that if I were to haul through counterflex, the tension between my line hand and the mass of the (nascent) fly leg would be working to damp counter flex. Since counterflex is a major determinant of loop width, any diminution must help to narrow loops. I suspect that any potential loss of distance due to this late haul shortening the fly leg, could well be outweighed by the resultant more efficient loop shape.
Regards,
Tony.
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[GH] Tony,
I hadn't thought of it that way !
Perhaps being down there in OZ helps to give you a refreshing perspective. I've often thought that of Peter Hayes when he sends some thought provoking messages.
Gordy
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