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Walter & Group...
>From Joe Libeu, re. Aitor's videos:
Gordy,
What is the definition of a short sharp haul? These appear to be on the longer haul side if we look at where the haul starts . Yes, he does throw in a very sharp haul at one point, but it is within a longer haul. Am I wrong on this?. Help me out here.
Joe
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[GH] Joe,
I don't have a real definition for a "short, sharp haul". One thing I did note: Mark finished his haul on Alejandro's casts well prior to loop formation. Did appear to me that you are correct in that it was not a haul made with smooth or "constant" haul acceleration since there seemed to me that there was a burst of force exerted in the middle of the haul. I think that is what Aitor meant by his term, "faulty haul".
When I want to demonstrate a tail caused by an ill timed haul, I don't haul except for a brief instant which I choose during the cast. The quicker and more forcefully I do it, the nastier the tail..... the kind which forces you to change leaders.
Perhaps we can get Alejandro to comment on this.
Gordy
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>From Frank Harford:
Gordy
I looked at the Lasse Karlsson video several times and can certainly appreciate the difference in counterflex between the two rods , but the width of the loops seems to be about the same . This surprised me . It just makes sense that counterflex should be a major determinant of loop size , but I just don't see it here .
Frank
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[GH] Well... I do see a definite though not profound difference in the size of the loops on each of Lasse's casts. Note the effect of counterflex making the soft rod loop larger immediately after it was formed.... followed by some degree of its width diminishing a bit during rebound.
I think it was Paul Arden who described this rebound effect as "sucking it up" to some extent after the initial counterflex effect of opening up the loop. Due, I think to the forward momentum of the loop
Gordy
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>From Bruce Richards:
Gordy,
The hauls shown are definitely sharp, extremely so, but also definitely not short. Walter points out that the haul ends when the hauler "runs out of arm" These are very extreme hauls, both in length and speed. Of course they show some rod bend, all hauls cause some rod bend, but I'm sure that if all was measured that rod bend addition would be relatively minor compared to line speed increase. We all know that tails can be caused by hauling. If someone is casting a nice, tight loop tip path is relatively straight, it only takes a very small amount of additional rod bend to cause a tail.
I agree with Walter that haul hand "follow through" should be minimal, the hand should stop as soon as possible after RSP1. Any hauling after that point pulls on the rod leg and will cause an earlier turnover, and shorter distance. For max distance casts the ideal situation is for the haul hand to reach max speed just as the arm straightens, and that coincides with RSP1. Watch any of the top distance casters and that's what you'll see. For most it isn't something they consciously do, they instinctively know what is best.
I can throw tighter loops when hauling, the longer the distance the more important hauling is for really tight loops. To make a really tight loop you need two things, a very straight top leg, and a very high bottom leg. Most good casters can make a very straight top leg on most casts. The real issue is how high you can keep the bottom leg. When a loop initially forms the position of the bottom leg is largely determined by how much rod counterflex there is. More counterflex, the lower the bottom leg. The more the rod bends, the more counterflex there will be. By adding a haul to most any cast I can reduce the amount of rod bend, hence counterflex. There is a lot more rod bend on long casts, of course, so the benefit is greater there. Lasse's video clearly shows this, comparing a soft and stiff rod. More bend, more counterflex. Stop the video just after the loop forms, it is clear.
Bruce
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[GH] Bruce,
Your last sentence.
Did you mean, "Stop the video just after the loop forms, it is clear."?
Gordy
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Bruce answers:
Gordy, yes. Stop the Karlsson video just after the stop on the first cast, it clearly shows the impact of more rod bend/counterflex on the bottom leg, and loop size..
Bruce
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>From Walter Simbirski,
"They also provide a picture of some increase in rod bend as these hauls are applied with great force over a short time interval. However, they don't really show how much rod bend would increase with the use of a long smooth haul compared with the rod bend achieved with the same cast (same action with the rod arm) made with no haul."
Gordy - In fact, looking at these videos it makes one think - "How do I apply a significant haul without causing a tailing loop or other strange things to happen to my loop?". One key is to mirror what the rod hand is doing - apply power smoothly.
The other thing to consider is that we often talk about the rod as a flexible third class lever so that it has characteristics of a spring and a lever but it differs from a spring in that it has a narrow range in which
it responds linearly to input forces, i.e. I apply X units of force and the rod tip deflects Y inches and if I then apply 2X units of force the rod tip deflects 2Y inches. After that narrow response range the non-linear nature quickly becomes apparent and an increase of 5% or 10% of applied force results in a relatively minor change to the rod deflection and may actually result in little or no change to the effective rod length.
For short casts this means the haul is best applied from the beginning to the end of the casting stroke. For distance casting we can delay the start of the haul somewhat because we induce a much deeper load in the rod with the rod hand. In either case the haul should end at RSP.
Walter
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[GH] Walter,
That narrow range of rod bend in relation to the force applied is something I hadn't considered. Perhaps that is one reason the haul doesn't yield more rod load than it does (????)
The "mirror image" concept fits with what I've been teaching, though I didn't know the details you described. Putting it simply, what seems to work well with my students is to have the haul, for most casts, be a mirror image of the casting arc with respect to:
1. Length 2. Duration 3. Smooth application of force. 4. End point
Gordy
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