Walter & Group...
[GH] Let me make something clear. In yesterday's message, I was not referring to the actions of the caster which lead to a tailing loop... rather what the line/leader actually looks like as a tail is formed after the cast.
Let's present some of the responses to the questions posed. As we do this, we'll review some differing points of view.
Gordy
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>From Tim Lawson:
Gordy,
The bottom illustration in the third picture on page 14 of Mel's book most definitely IS a tailing, crossed, closed loop. The fly leg has dipped under the rod leg (classic definition of a tailing loop). Throwing that loop will decrease your distance, ruin your accuracy, and tangle your leader. The top illustration in that third set of pictures is a "tendency to tail", or "trailing" loop. The fly leg dips toward the rod leg during unrolling, but doesn't cross. Still not the desired loop shape. Excellent, simple, clear, concise illustrations.
There is one cause for this loop shape, i.e., a concave, u-shaped, upside down igloo, hi-lo-hi, upside down rainbow, saucer shaped path of the tip of the rod during the casting stroke. I can think of nine things the CASTER can do to cause that tip path, and each one will cause a loop that looks just like the illustrations on page 14.
Tim
PS. A primary purpose of a water haul IS to load the rod!!
Tim
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>From David Lambert :
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Wondered if some in the group might find this helpful -- a photo-overlay I did of an image high-speed image of Bruce Richards throwing a tailing loop. I overlaid the rod, the rod path, and the fly line. You will see that I augmented the final loop shape based on existing line positions, the actual tailing loop was not part of the original image.
David Lambert
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[GH] David,
I placed your attachments with this message. Nice work!
Gordy
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>From Robert Garber:
Hi Gordy,
It was good to meet you in Spokane and I very much enjoyed being part of your class with Bruce Richards. Below our my thoughts…
LET'S SEE HOW SOME OF YOU WOULD DRAW THE TAILING LOOP :
1. A TENDENCY TO TAIL (AN "ALMOST" TAIL).
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2. A COMPLETED TAILING LOOP.
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2. Can you come up with a definition for a TAILING LOOP?
Where the concavity of the fly leg of the loop crosses the rod leg of the loop twice.
3. Are all tailing loops the same?
No, in respect to where they occur. Yes, in respect to the cause and shape.
4. Are tailing loops ever done intentionally?
Yes, in demonstrations. I can’t think of a reason to do one when fishing.
6. If your answer to 5. was "yes", tell us for what fishing purpose.
5. Which leg of the loop altered when casting with a concave rod tip path?
The fly leg.
6. How do you think that loop leg is altered?
By the rod tip path.
Robert
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From Bernd Zeische:
Hi Gordy,
a partially concave rod tip path during acceleration results in a wave (or buckle) in the fly-leg of the loop. This wave (or buckle) will make it's way thru the fly-leg into the direction of the fly.
To me it does not matter if this wave will cross the rod-leg or not. Most instructors will only call it to be a tailing loop if the wave does cross the rod-leg. But if or if not depends as well on the position from where one will watch the whole loop.
The cause for all tailing issues is what I focus on. There are many reasons why the tip may travel in a partially concave tip path. To understand all of them is the key for helping the student to get rid of it.
attached is a picture of it...
a while ago I had this one (attached) on my facebook side. We all agreed this to be a "closed loop" and not a tailing loop at all.
Instead of a bad loop (like the tailing one would be) this is a very good loop in my book. I usually see those loops when casters are able to cast very relaxed and very smoothly.
Greets
Bernd
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[GH] Bernd,
You bring up an interesting point!
The configuration of the actual tail depends upon the point of view. The same tail will appear very differently to the caster than the observer standing off to one side. We also looked at some tailing loops from my second story deck as the caster made them, below. Different again.
The drawing in yesterday's message was made with the assumption that it represented a tail as seen from one side.
I agree with you that your photo (attached) does not represent a tailing loop despite the apparent, "crossover". Years ago, for want of a better name, I called it an "underslung loop". I see it as the product of a smooth distance cast acted upon by gravity.
Gordy
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