Problem: Back cast loops striking the ground 3

Walter & Group...

[GH] Several of you have asked for my little workup on our local tides. I'll include it in a separate attachment.

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[GH] From Lefty Kreh:

Gordy— I am amazed how complicated some instructors make things. The reason the backcast has a sag, slack or hits the ground is the rod tip stops in a down and back direction.

I see students improve their backcast in minutes by simply explaining to them IF YOUR ROD TIP STOPS WHILE IT IS RISING THE BACKCAST WILL GO UPWARD AND BE STRAIGHT.

Aside from suggesting they start with a lower rod position I don't tell them about flexing wrist, starting to high, etc. I let them figure out how to stop the rod while it's rising and they TEACH THEMSELVES (the best way to learn) in minutes to make a good backcast.

Lefty

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[GH] Lefty,

I've seen you do that.

Our next message is from John Hogg who is one of our newest members. He provides a little teaching scenario which essentially uses your method (Highlights are mine):

Back cast loops hitting the ground:

Instructor: I’m watching your back cast. How far off the ground do you think your fly is?

Student: Probably 7 or 8 feet?

Instructor: Actually, it is hitting the ground – you can guess what would happen if you actually had a fly on, and were at stream-side.

Student: Wow, I had no idea! What am I doing wrong?

Instructor: Your rod is following a path kind of like a windshield wiper – a big arc. At the end of the back cast, your rod tip is actually traveling downward and your fly line follows it.

Student: How do I correct it?

Instructor: Well, if you want the fly line to go up, which way should the rod tip be traveling?

Student: Up?

Instructor: Exactly. Now this may feel a little awkward, but I want you to try and have the rod tip traveling in an upward direction when it comes to a stop.

Student: Like this?

Instructor: That was much better. Now your line is now about 5 feet off the ground. Try to exaggerate that movement even more to get it higher.

Student: Is that better?

Instructor: Much better –do you notice that your forward cast is becoming easier and less forced now!

Student: I do see that, there is more power with less effort.

Instructor: Yup, gravity at work! A good backcast is the foundation of a good forward cast.

As a new member of the group, I am learning a lot. Thank you all.

John Hogg, Sacramento, CA

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[GH] John, Well done.

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[GH] From Gary Davison:

Your new student casts with big poorly controlled loops. Her back cast loops strike the ground with each attempt.

1. Likely diagnosis? Too much wrist in the cast, causing a convex path of the rod tip. A downward trajectory of the rod tip on the back cast. Coupled with a timing issue which will cause the line to hit the ground as the forward cast is being implemented.

2. Corrections? Restrict the wrist movements on the back cast, which will re-enforces an upward trajectory on the back cast to a more leveling plane that correspond with the forward cast. Then if needed correct the timing on the forward cast to eliminate grounding the line.

All the best

Gary Davison

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[GH] From Frank Harford:

Gordy

Some other corrective measures for the "wristing" student are having them cast with the index finger on top of the grip or having them cast with the rod in front of their face so that excessive wristing results in a bump on the head .

Frank Harford

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[GH] Casting with the index finger on top will likely do the trick. However, this might well be used as a learning exercise .... a prelude to having the student bring the rod back and not down to a stop at the right time when using grips suitable for distance casting.

The way I see it is that while grip change may help, it is a "bandaid fix" which fails to address the real problem.

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[GH] Craig Buckbee brings up another less common cause. (I see this one more often with "intermediate" level students):

Gordy,

Adding to what others have sent in ...

Your new student casts with big poorly controlled loops. Her back cast loops strike the ground with each attempt.

1. Likely diagnosis?

Pausing to long before changing to forward direction... allowing gravity to have it's full effect.

2. Corrections?

Have her cast and give her prompts such as "Now" for the correct timing, the length of pause, when to begin forward motion.

Also:

For poorly formed loops, have her put down the rod and do a rearward throwing drill.

Have her throw stones or acorns at an object behind her such as a tree. Aim up and at. Here too she can watch her back throw. It will show her the added 'pop' os speed* that we need for the back cast.

It will get her into feeling and seeing a crisp sharp stop that zings the object ''Out and At'' instead of the fluffy wishy washy release.

As we are forward living animals, doing things backwards is unfamiliar and often difficult... think about our dish faces with eyes frontal and our bone + muscle armature.

Our sports, or simply how we run are done as we go forward. There is very little backwards movement.

* Joan Wulff mentions this.

p.s. - On a humorous note I could have her jump right to the more advanced technique of using for a Water Haul... ha ha ... ;)

Happy Holidays to All,

Craig

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[GH] Craig...

I can always count on you to think "outside the box" or to provide a fresh look at an issue.

Actually, I often use the "water haul" or "tension cast". Helps with this problem, because the student starts with the fly on the water and the rod tip low when done properly. If the trajectory of the forward position is in line with that of the back cast, the rod tip goes back AND UP on the back cast. Of course the "stop" must still be timed correctly.

Joan Wulff points out, in her book, that this is the most common fault she sees. * In her classes, as you point out, she calls attention to the fact that in almost all throwing sports, we learn to throw forward, not backward. Not so with fly casting.

* Joan Wullf's FLY CASTING TECHNIQUES, 1987, pp,28-29.

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[GH] From Hank wu :

Hi Gordy,

I try to answer as easy as possible. Because I imagine the scenario is a totally beginner of fly casting.

1.Likely diagnosis?

I will say " the position where her stopped the rod tip". She stopped the rod tip too low.

2.Corrections?

Try to find some targets to aim when she does the false cast. and the targets in front of her and in back of her should be aligned. In the meantime, tell her try to imagine there is a line she needs to keep her rod tip to follow the line when doing the false casting.

Once she can reach this, then I tell her why. And now we may start to talk about the tip path and how it influences the line layout.

Cheers

Hank

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[GH] Hank,

Yes. Sometimes I'll have the student aim at a remote "target" behind. It could be a cloud, a tree top, etc.

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[GH] Challenge from Tim Lawson :

Hi Gordy,

OK, candidates, you did all these "classic" techniques, but she still doesn't get it. Now what? I think we're still missing at least two great techniques for helping this student.

Tim

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