Rods / Terms

Walter & Group...

From David Lambert on fly rod spines :

Gordy, hey-

The short 'spine-ing' thread last week got me wondering if rod makers actually spine rods the old way, that is, bend the pieces until they jump?  And where are the guides placed when they find the spine?  Above the spine or opposite? 

I called around. Of my sampling, only Orvis still spines rods the conventional way. Most rod builders look for the natural bend then wrap opposite it to straighten the rod visually so it looks good 'on the rack,' so it bends down when a customer/caster looks down the length of the rod. (Also, only one of 5 uses the term now uses the term spline).

The big majority opinion is that materials, technique and workmanship has evolved to the point that locating a spine is difficult, and that the spine is insignificant to the cast these days.  More important to most manufacturers is the visual look, how the rod acts when a customer looks down the length of the rod.

All engineers/designers had much to say on the topic. I edited way down. 

Below are the results of my informal survey:

Sage: Sales manager Chris Andersen says no need to spine rod. Tip will find load. They do 'turn' rod pieces to find the 'straight.'

Orvis: Longtime Orvis tech Dan Gracia says Orvis does find spine. They suspend each rod section between rollers and have a weight that pulls rod to jump point.

Echo: Owner/rod designer Tim Rajeff says they don't spine rods, but they do line up guides where rod is most stable under load. Tim suggests that the technology and materials are so much improved that spining is mostly not necessary. He said most rod companies inspect visually and turn rods so they look good off the rack.

TFO: Owner Rick Pope says the guides are applied when the rod is rotated to 'straight.'  That would be on the inside (soft) part of the rod in most cases, but not necessarily on the plane of the spine. In other words, a finished rod that is straight is more important to an off-the-rack consumer than one that has each section spined perfectly.

Winston: Leslie Clark says Winston tests to find the 'straight' of each piece; they rotate pieces to find the straightest overall look, then attach guides to correct to straightness.

A couple of companies didn't respond.  All I spoke with were very happy to talk about the issue and none had any 'proprietary' hesitance.

Notes:
Tim Rajeff noted that one wrap of masking tape weighs the same as thread and wrap, so a rod builder can tape on guides and 'play' with a rod by moving the eyes and casting.

Also, Rick Pope (who now has Gary Loomis as his rod designer) said what influences rod straightness includes wall thickness vs blank diameter, grams per square meter of the material selected, layup and even scrim.

Chris Andersen of Sage suggested noticeably unstraight blank pieces don't make the cut and get scrapped.

Hope this lends some insight.

David
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David ....  You have done a yoeman's job on this !   Many thanks.

Gordy

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From Rene Hesse on the Shakespeare WONDERODS :

Gordy you are spot on about the 'Howald' Wonderod spelling, and while I was reading the name off

of the rod I noticed a hook keeper that was different than most we see today. 

The keeper is flush to the grip and placed 90degrees from the line of the guides.  What makes it unique

is that it will not catch the line on a shoot because it lines up like a guide and is very flush.

 

Ps. Pop Hesse knew what kind of core was in this rod....because it is about 3 inches shorter and the

tip has been replaced.

 

Rene

 

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                                                                      TERMS - MORE

 

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From Michael Jones :

 

CLARIFICATIONS FROM LAST SENT NOTE ARE MADE HERE: 

Gordy:

Sorry to jump in late on this, but Maine has a long history in US fishing history, and we are proud to have originated many things fishing: guiding being one example.  It is reported that Cornelia 'Flyrod' Crosby was the first licensed guide in the US; this may be disputed.  In the early days of commercial fly tying (Carrie Stevens & Herbie Welch) and sports arriving by train to fish the legendary waters of the Rangeley and Moosehead regions, the state recognized the necessity to define a few terms for the state's waters.  What follows are terms that have stood the test of time and are recognized by our Warden Service as recognized definitions, however week or strong.  I like how we have applied tandem trolling flies as an artificial lure; someone recognized early-on that this was too effective in fly fishing only water!  Please share:

Fly means a single-pointed hook dressed with feathers, hair, thread, tinsel, or any similar material to which no additional hook, spinner, spoon or similar device is added.

 

FLY FISHING means casting upon water and retrieving in a manner in which the weight of the fly line propels the fly. No more than 3 unbaited artificial flies individually attached to a line may be used. (NOTE: It is unlawful to troll a fly in waters restricted to fly fishing only).

 

Artificial Lure means any fishing lure constructed by humans as an imitation or substitute for natural bait or fish forage and includes, but is not limited to artificial flies, spinners, spoons, poppers, plugs, jigs and plastic, rubber or other artificial imitations of natural bait. An artificial lures only rule prohibits the use of any live, dead or chemically preserved natural or organic bait or food.

 

HOOK means a single fishhook constructed with 1, 2 or 3 points.

 

TROLL means to fish by trailing a line rigged to catch fish behind a watercraft being propelled by mechanical, wind, or manual power. (Tandem flies are allowed when trolling.)

 

Michael

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Michael.   Late entry is never a problem.  Some of our most useful information comes to us that way.

 

I suspect that there are probably fly fishing definitions and descriptions from every State and that the wordings are different from one another.  This one from Maine, is very clear.

 

Years ago, when fishing Grand Lake and Grand Lake Stream in Maine, I recall that we used tandem hook flies for landlocked salmon.  We didn't troll, though many did that from canoes.

 

Many water areas about the U.S.A. prohibit the use of treble or quad hooks.  I didn't see that was covered in your message from Me.

 

Gordy

 

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TOMOROW :   ANSWERS TO QUIZ.

 

GORDY