Away/ Teaching youngsters / Teaching the "STOP" - more.

Walter & Group....

I will be away for a few days ....FISHING.    I'll return later next week.     Gordy

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From Peter Morse :

Gordy I was recently asked to teach a friends kids - twin 7 year old 
girls. I realised very quickly that this was going to need a different 
approach and that the concept of play I'd read about here and 
elsewhere is a good one. We used the tips of their rods to draw 
"stuff". I had them doing snakes and dragons backs and tumble weeds 
and even encouraged them to try and write their names in the air with 
the line. Into this I slid "circles, eights and straights". The 
competition between them lit the place up and that was when casts 
really started to happen.  I let them learn completely at their own 
pace, if they wanted to go a play with their dollies for ten minutes 
that was fine - they cam right back to the casting when they'd had a 
break.

Their dad caught on straight away - make it a game but learn tip 
control at the same, then the casting will just happen as a 
consequence. He learned enough there and then to be able to take it 
from there.

Peter

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Peter...

It would be interesting to know if these girls actually got to use their skills once attained to actually go fly fishing.

Any chance of a followup message in the future ?

Gordy

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From John MacDiarmid :

A few years ago I volunteered to be part of an educational day for young folks.  Several science teachers and flyfishing enthusiast were involved.  The kids were taken to the creek where bugs were collected and identified; another group received a lesson in fly tying and some of us taught casting.  The first year I just simply taught them how to load the rod and cast on the grass.  In no time they learned the basic stroke and were bored...but hey I taught them how to cast. 

 

 An educator noted, "you guys need some games."  By the second year I was starting to take my casting more seriously and brought out some hoops; better but not adequate.  By the third year, I had been monitoring this site and picked up one of Geordie's little tricks, I picked up the ring, put my face in it and challenged one of the unenthused to "hit me", take you best shop.  It got that kid the other kids and ME more engaged.  Once they had a cast down, I took them on a casting safari, we walked around the park and cast to pretend fish under bushes and in tree wells.  WE all enjoyed the class more. Next year I'd like to place some cutout trout under the bushes.

 

John MacDiarmid

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John .....  Yes.  Kids go for games and challenges.

When I was about 5, my motivation was the CATCH.  My father and grandfather took me and my brother out often fishing in all different ways .... as well as fly fishing.  I quickly got the idea that a fish caught on the fly was considered much more "valuable" as a trophy than one caught on bait.  That somehow stuck in my brain.

I guess I simply copied what my elders did.....  no lessons, no classes.  By the time I was 10, fly fishing was just something we "did" .....

Turn a kid loose with only a  rigged fly rod and a red hot motivation to catch a fish and he'll figure out how to do it eventually.

Reminds me of Lefty's statement a while back about natives of undeveloped countries finding out their own best way of learning how to cast a fly.  Interesting, that this was usually with an ergonomic "what's easiest" method... not far from Lefty's own style.

Gordy

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From Jim Gill :

Gordy, Now I really like this "Night Learning" - over the years I've had to take many exams - and subconciously this how I used to get round a lot of difficulties - in fact I still do. In coaching courses we debate the way in which we identify "What to" then dig into our knowledge and skill set to plan the "How to". So Jerry is quite right when he says it's all about getting into the "student's brain"

 

- One of the most important segments of the coaching plan is establishing "Rapport" - taking care to welcome - meet the students and then ensure there is a formal  introduction/negotiation for each personal learning plan; the coach gathers information on his students and thus sets the scene for positive learning.

 

Best wishes, Jim.

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From Maryann Townsend :

 

I agree 90% is just the desire to learn. I teach tying and casting as a PE elective at a university. Within the first couple of casts I can usually pick out the students who are there because the really want to learn about the sport and the folks that are there just because it sounded better than tennis :-) It is a great feeling though when one of those noninterested folks come around. I have one such student now that can't get enough of the sport. All he needed was the desire to try something new and the ability to listen, watch others, dedicated practice time and learn by setting an example for others. He actually became my teaching assistant for the class and when he graduates with his bachelors degree in business he will have 6 elective credit hours in a combination of fly tying, casting and rod building :-)

Maryann

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Comment:   Well.... high powered business people need to decompress.  What better way to it by improving their lives as they fly fish ?

G.

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                                                         TEACHING THE "STOP".... MORE

 

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From Kirk Eberhard...

 

Hi Gordy,

    Don't know if these have been mentioned during the rod stopping discussion.

Wulff wrist lock or Velcro substitute,

Turning ball cap or hat around so student can see the rod tip/unrolling fly line. There can be a tendency to drop the rod tip (open the loop) since the student cannot see the rod tip until it comes into view beneath the brim.

Kirk 

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Kirk...

 

Yes.  I considered adding these, then thought we'd save those for ways to handle the problem of the OUT-OF-CONTROL-WRIST on the back cast.....  generally agreed to be the most common fault of beginners.

 

However, these methods will help on the forward cast as well.

 

To these, I'll add three taught me by Tom White :

 

1.   Have the student hold the cork rod grip as he usually would, EXCEPT THE REEL IS TURNED BACKWARDS so that it actually comes tight against the inner aspect of the forearm.  As the student casts, it is difficult to overflex or deviate the wrist to make wide out of control loops.

 

2.   Sometimes, Tom would actually use the cuff of a student's long sleeve shirt.  He'd stick the butt of the rod bneath the buttened cuff.

 

3.  As the student finishes the stroke, teach him to pinch his thumb and forefinger.  This tenses the wrist and hand muscles in such a way as to be magical in preventing too much wrist action.

 

Of course, these methods are all "Bandaids" ....not permanent cures at all. It is then up to the instructor to take them from this level through a realization by the student of a better loop achievement, and on to doing it without the artivficial aids.

 

Gordy

 

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Phil Maher on the HI - FIVE method:

 

Hi Guys

 

There is two ways in which i teach the stop.

 

First is the high five so here is how it goes. I put my hand out in front of them and ask them to give me a high five. Then I put my other hand at their shoulder where I think that they should be stopping. Then I ask them to give me a high five with the back of their hand Up to my other hand. After a few goes of forward and back I give them a rod in their hand and we do the same thing. I find that this gives the student a good foundation of the basic casting stroke.

 

The second and the one which I find the best is to take about 7-8 yards of line outside the rod tip and stand out in front of the student about 15 yards and put your hand out and ask them to point the rod tip at your hand. Then move your hand to the right and stop. They should follow it with the rod tip then move your hand to the left and stop. Keep doing this speeding slowing on till they get the line in the air and then stay at that pace. There they go they are casting.

Hope that this is of some help

Phil Maher

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From Dan Davala :

Gordy,

 

Whenever I have a student that just won't get the stop right, I have found a method that helps correct this with good consistency.  What I do is, after praising the things they are doing right, I have them start making casts with the rod tilted over their off shoulder.  I do this with the focus on how to deal with wind when it is coming in over their casting shoulder.  I like to let dealing with the wind be the focus of this exercise, since I don't want them to feel over corrected and get discouraged, especially if we have been working on their stop already with poor results. 

 

Inevitably what happens is, they begin stopping the rod correctly, if only to avoid hitting themselves with it.  Usually it is the student that realizes how much better their loops are when casting over their off shoulder.  That opens the door for me to explain why this is, and how stopping the rod higher on the back cast prevents the rod from moving through to large of an arc on the forward cast.    Once they get the feeling of a good crisp stop on the back cast this way, I have them make some casts over their casting shoulder again and most of the time they are pretty well cured. 

 

I think this works so well because the student is led to the fix, but allowed to feel and discover it themselves.  We can usually improve and hone their forward stop much easier since it is in front of them, and they can see the rod and the resulting good loops when they make a good stop. 

 

One other method I employ successfully, is I have my students that are having difficulty switch over and cast with their non-dominant hand.  I wait for a cue that suggests their dominant hand or arm is getting tired (which is pretty quick if they are having issues with their stop), then I move in and suggest they try a few casts with their off hand.  Again, the focus is not on trying to fix what they are doing wrong, but rather to present a casting option they have likely not thought of, and allow them to rest their tired, overworked dominant arm/hand.  Most, if not all of my students that do this are astonished to see they cast better loops with their off hand.  This is especially true of students with a very deep spinning background who are having as much or more trouble pausing as they are stopping correctly. 

 

It seems that the added thought required to use their non-dominant hand causes them to focus on making a proper stroke, stop, and pause resulting in fundamentally good casting and consequently good loops.  Just as in the off-shoulder method above, when they switch back over to their dominant hand they know better what they are looking for and usually do a better job right away. 

 

I believe just as children seem to learn languages faster than adults (while they are still linguistically in their infancy), budding fly casters learn to cast with their non-dominant hand faster than established casters simply because they haven't yet determined it will be hard to do so.  It is ALL new to them.  

 

Dan Davala 

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Dan...  Your last paragraph is interesting.  I've noted that kids are a LOT more likely to learn new maneuvers including fly casting with the non-dominent arm.  I noted that some of the very young ones will switch back and forth on their own.  I suppose it is because dominence isn't quite as well burned into their brains as it is in adults.

Even as an oldster, as I teach myself to cast better with my other hand I note that if forces me to think harder and more critically.  My don dominent arm never goes on autopilot !

Gordy

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