Walter & Group...
I had written this, to which Kirk Eberhard responds :
From Guy Manning:
Hi
Gordy,
The first time I
heard the term Point-P was indeed from Simon a couple of years before he
published his book. He had tested one of my students for CCI and had used the
term during the test. Neither of us had heard the term before and the student
mentioned it to me after the test. I was able to get Simon off to the side and
we were discussing the term using a rod and line on the water. Since this was in
relation to a CCI test the term came up in discussion of the static roll cast.
Dynamic roll casts (switch casts) were never allowed in the testing here so it
is obvious that Simon is not necessarily talking about a line under tension as
Kirk asserts, but the point where the line nearest the rod tip first touches the
water.
I think this is a good example
of how misinformation can sometimes lead to bad testing as we have seen in
earlier discussions about switch casts being called ?roll casts?. Things
get distorted by lack of firsthand knowledge and then get taught to others. Over
time the whole thing becomes a mess and screws with the testing process.
FFF Master Certified Casting
Instructor
Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo
Group
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Guy... I had never run across the term, "point P" until I read Simon's book. Don't know if he actually coined the term or if others had used it previously. G.
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From Jim Bass :
Gordy I just watched the
first CD of Rio?s Modern Spey Casting and to me the P Point is where the hanging
line touches the water. If the P Point is in front of you when you
have minimal stick and smooth cast. If P Point is behind you there will
heavy stick and a loud noise from the line being ripped from the water. I
am starting CD # 2 now.
Gordy I keep all Questions
and answers in a folder by the week. It doesn?t take long to find
them. Al?s in one folder and Yours in another.
Jim Bass
Regarding point "P". I'd have to disagree with Larry. There is no
contradiction in Simon's definition. Easy proof, static roll cast with
dead line. You can hold that position indefinitely and have a static
Point "P". For Larry's definition to be acceptable the feature rule of
"dynamic" must be true for EVERY situation. Clearly it's not for that
case so therefore the definition is not adequate. What is dynamic is
the lift and resulting tension on the line, and though point "p" may
be relocated to a different position on the line itself, depending on
lift and line tension, it remains true in every instance to it's
feature rule - that point "p" is "the exact spot where the D loop
touches the water surface."
It's true we can change it's location by lifting the rod (dynamic),
but point "p" will always be "the exact spot where the D loop touches
the water surface" even if it exists in a specific location for split
second of time, then moves to another location for a split second of
time, and another, etc. In regard to physics, dynamic means "relating
to forces producing motion." The very name itself POINT "p"
contradicts any dynamism. Though movable, in the context of spey
casting point "p" describes a condition of the line in a static moment
in time. That is specifically, "the exact spot where the D loop
touches the water surface" immediately before the line is lifted off
the water. And as such, both run out and run back as concepts not only
make sense but exhibit no contradictory use of the definition. If
nothing happens immediately after the static moment in time that point
"p" is established before lifting the line off the water, run back
occurs to establish point "p" at "the exact spot where the D loop
touches the water surface" with the line no longer under tension.
Again, it is the tension of the line that is constantly changing,
point "p" remains the same - "the exact spot where the D loop touches
the water surface."
W
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From Michael Jones:
Gordy:
Gordy,
I found this web site; I thought I would pass it
along.
Lou
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Lou... Thanks. While trying to learn to navigate my way through WIKIPEDIA, I found some interesting stuff on fly fishing history.
A great source for this information is to be found in Vol I. of Ernie Schwiebert's TROUT. He did an amazing amount of research to come up with this chapter !
Gordy
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ARCHIVING
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Mark Milkovitch answers my question on retrieval of information archived :
Gordy,
I think I can explain
and demonstrate my organizing system if I put the components and explanations
together in a single short document. Let me take some time to do
that. It would include: 1.a small sample from a ?compiled? quiz with
answers from everyone grouped together, 2.a description of the outline/index
system I use like the index at the back of a book to search out topics, and
3.the hyperlink system which takes me from the index to the actual content which
originally appeared in a quiz, Loop article, Master Study Guide article, or
notes I made from another source.
Thanks,
Mark