V - pointed loop / Article on Casting Stroke / Balanced flies

Walter & Group...

Here is Steve Rajeff's description of what he does to make that superb sharp pointed fly line loop :-

 Gordy,

Regarding the V shape, or pointed loop, it is created at the moment of stop of the forward stroke. It is defined by the tip dipping down or tracking the straight line path, in the final tip couple of feet of travel. The tip dip or straight line path is controlled by wrist rotation (turn over) and extension of the arm, (extending the stroke slightly),

right at the stop. Turning the wrist over, make the tip travel forward. Extending the arm forward, makes the tip travel forward. This is not to say, save up wrist rotation until the end, or push the arm out at the end, but a blend of both, in a smooth turn over, is what helps keep the tip tracking the straight line path a bit further to create the pointed loop. Another variable, is rod stiffness to line balance. A stiffer rod lighter line set up, will make it easier to make the pointed loop, as it is easier to keep the tip traveling along the straight line path.  A more loaded down rod, would require more rotation and more extension to help keep the tip tracking. In the events of Single Hand Fly Distance, also, Anglers Fly Distance, we use really stiff rods for the weight of the line, that helps generate maximum line speed and it is very easy to achieve the pointed loop.    

Best regards,

Steve

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                          ARTICLE BY BRUCE RICHARDS AND NOEL PERKINS - Understanding your Casting Stroke (Fly Fisherman Magazine, Dec., 2003.)

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This is a link to Fly Fisherman Magazine Provided by Arnell Hodges :

http://castanalysis.com/links/flyfishermandec2003.pdf

 

http://castanalysis.com/links/flyfishermandec2003.pdf

--- On Thu, 8/20/09, Gordy Hill <masterstudygroup@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: Gordy Hill <masterstudygroup@xxxxxxxxxxx>

> Subject: Balanced Flies- Heavy flies / "pointed loop" / Article sought

> To: "Arnell xxxxx" <redwoode@xxxxxxxxx>

> Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 12:20 PM

I also placed the magazine in an attachment in case you have trouble activating the link.

Scroll down to the second article and you will find the one by Bruce Richards & Noel Perkins entitled UNDERSTANDING YOUR CASTING STROKE.

This should be studied carefully.   Consider archiving it for future reference.  It occurred to me that this should be added to the reading material in the FFF Master Study Guide.

One caveat:  When they discuss the different curves for the Casting Analyzer between those for the rigid rod and those for the flexible one, they are talking about a completely rigid rod.  Not one we'd fish with.  THIS IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE IT SHOWS THAT THE ROD TIP OF A TRUE FLY ROD WITH SOME DEGREE OF FLEXIBILITY IS MOVING FASTEST BETWEEN THE "STOP" OF THE HAND AND RSP (AN INTERVAL OF ABOUT 0.1 SEC.)

Gordy

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                                                        MORE ON BALANCED FLIES

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From Gary Davison :

Gordy

 

The information provided by Mark is great.  I like his approach on this subject.  I am glad you asked the questions after his text.  I would like to know more about what to look for in the balancing of a fly which your questions address.  I hope Mark keeps us posted on how to obtain his DVD once completed.  I would like to get a copy. We push ourselves to balance the system Rod, Line, & Leaders.  It only makes perfect sense to have a balanced fly to make the system complete.  I would think this would be imperative in the pursuit of any game fish where accuracy and time for presentation is critical to meet the challenge.

 

I would like to learn more on this subject.

 

 

Thanks to Mark.

 

PS:  I also agree with Mark that tight or tighter loops can be used with heavier fly's with good casting techniques and timing, across the board.

 

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Mark Sedotti answers our questions:

Hi Gordy,
 
Great questions.
 
I add the weight to the very large flies by using .035 wire to wrap the shank of the front hook and then tie in a keel below, which is 15-18 half inch pieces of that .35 wire. Of course, the hooks (5/0 front, 4/0 trailer) are heavy and a wire connects them. The big fly is usually 10 to 14 inches long. This works for a fly 8 inches or bigger.
 
Easiest to do: Is to use one Spirit River large size (they have three sizes- large is largest) weighted eye (they are not lead) for an 8 or 9 inch bunker fly. Use two of these for a fly like this that is 10 to say 17 inches long. Of course you're natuarally going to have heavy hooks. I don't tie in a trailer on an 8 incher.
 
This is a simple way to weight balance very large flies.
 
2. Most of the heavy weight is added to the front hook. Doesn't matter where you add it on that hook. With a fly that size it always ends up by the head.
 
I think total weight of fly is most importent, but really most of my weight has been near or at the head for all of my giant flies.
 
3. The guide above for weighted eyes is pretty good. For a different size fly you would have to find this yourself. remember, I found this by accident at first. What you do is tie a fly. If it's too heavy, add more materials any way you can , till the fly casts best. Then put it all into the next fly. If the fly drags too much, add weight progressivily by bending weighted wire around the hook bed. Do this until THAT fly false casts best. As you get past the sweet spot, it will become less and less castible. Then you take a little off, and cast it again. Then you get to that point of weight balance.
 
Mark

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 Good new questions from Ralph Tomaccio.  My answers in his text in bold italics    G.  :

Hi Gordy and Gang,

 

Regarding weighted flies, a few questions:

 

If we are to design and tie flies so carefully as to be weight balanced to cast as they should, are these flies, then, only meant for one specific weight rod?

Most rods will handle a range of line weights.  The rod must be able to handle the fly line which can carry sufficient energy to turn over the loop for any weighted fly, balanced or not.   G.

Wouldn?t how the rod performs and the caster?s style dictate that that weight balanced fly is only ideal for that specific rod?

I suppose one might find the rod which would best handle that line and weighted fly in the hands of a particular caster.  Might well be a different one for best performance when cast by another caster.

RE: STYLE....     We speak of STYLE as a way of achieving the essentials of casting best suited to the caster's anatomy.  While maintaining those essentials, style may also be chosen to best perform with respect to fishing and casting circumstances. I think this situation would fit both.   It will become very obvious if ever you have the pleasure of seeing Mark Sedotti use his style of casting to deliver his very large, heavy balanced flies !   

Mark will be giving demonstration casts at our Florida Council meeting in October.      G.

 

Regards,

Ralph Tomaccio

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