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  • RE: Direct Instruction / "Hang time" /



    Title: Message
    Walter....
     
    What about the effect of having one end of the line "supported" by an elevated rod tip while the other end is free to fall ?
     
    Gordy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:54 PM
    To: Gordy Hill
    Subject: Re: Direct Instruction / "Hang time" /

    Gordy - the fall rate is dictated by gravity and terminal velocity. Neither the loop nor the line have
    any special abilities to negate these from what I can see. Tension in the line gives the illusion of
    increased hang time but it is an illusion.
     
    Thanks!
     
    Walter
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Gordy Hill
    Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:22 AM
    Subject: Direct Instruction / "Hang time" /

    Walter & Group...

    From Mack Brown:

    Hi Gordy,
    Getting caught up on the threads. Had a new baby boy the 15th of May so things are kind of hectic at the moment. Thought of a couple of things since reading many of the threads. The direct instruction article was interesting in the Loop. I think it has its place for some examples. However, I find it more efficient at times to have an intro when teaching really large classes (like the college programs of 25-30 students). The efficiency of not saying something over 30 times to every student is quite draining, hence I find it more productive to hit the important concepts to all then get them casting. These types of programs last a full semester so I tend to be with Scott's message in wanting all of the students to learn to self diagnose. Then they can have a passion of casting for a lifetime.
     
    Another example, last week I had 3 lessons on specialty fishing casts during the week. If I used only direct instruction there is no way they would be repeat clients at $140.00 per hour. I feel like when someone has a great desire to learn and are paying that kind of money they had better have many things to go away with from the lesson. Hence, I think really good instructors tailor on a case by case scenario for every lesson. You can read it so easily from person to person by watching their eyes, body language, etc.. to get a feel what they may handle. Neuro-linguistic programming is worth a read for that kind of thing.
     
    As Jim pointed out, it becomes more of a challenge when 2 or more have very different needs bundled into the same lesson. Good job Jim breaking it down to serve both needs!
     
    As instructors, we already know what the student needs to fish really well. This at times may vary with their goals (because often times the student is not sure what they need). If we just turn them loose flailing away without discussing some layout issues I can assure you it will be quite ugly taking them to the stream because they are not prepared. I am not a fan of  "cookie cutter" approaches for teaching. All teaching days, demos, etc.. become tailored to the type of audience you may have (case by case basis).
     
    The US team is fishing Scotland this week. Three of those members I have worked with off and on for over 15 years now. How would this direct instruction have helped them? If I would have turned them loose and said nothing to address layouts, hauling, shooting line, tying, loop planes, line management, etc... Hopefully something we say, gets them interested enough for a spark of enthusiasm to search a bit more. We all continue to learn new things in casting with this "what if" approach. 
     
    Good to hear from everybody and hope you all are getting a chance to wet a fly some these days.
     
    Cheers, Mac
     
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    Mac...   CONGRATULATIONS on the new addition to your family !
     
    I agree with you on Jim's answer.
     
    We have just started our yearly POON FEST.  Ten anglers as my guests, 5 flats skiffs, a week of tarpon fishing with some bonefishing and permit thrown in.  Lots of dinner stories, etc.
     
    Gordy

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                                                                    "HANG TIME" / LOOP SHAPE

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    From Tony Loader..........

    Hi Gordy,
     
    Welcome back.
     
    In my humble opinion, the shape of the loop would have an effect on the hang time - in direct proportion to the amount of tension that unrolling loop can exert against the rod tip as a result of it's shape.
     
    If I snag my fly in a tree and try to pull it free, the line will not fall to the ground until the fly comes free or the tippet breaks. Thus I suspect that the observed delay in the line falling to the ground is more a product of the tension produced by Chase's (often narrow and fast moving loop), than any drag induced lift.
     
    Regards,
    Tony
     
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    Tony...
     
    As we showed before, the physicists have shown the effect of FORM DRAG on different shaped loops.... Question is, however, how much does this actually add to HANG TIME in real life casting ??
     
    I suspect you are correct about the tension.  We must also remember that when you are not shooting line one end of that fly line is "attached" to the rod tip.  Even when shooting line, there is resistance from rod guide/tip friction to the traveling line.  This would make the fall rate different, I think, from the experiment suggested by Chase Jablonsky where a static line is dropped from two heights simultaneously.
     
    Gordy
     
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