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  • DRAG - style or substance ?



    Walter & Group....

    String of messages between Walter Simberski and me.....     G:-

    Gordy -
     
    Would it be fair to say that one man's substance may be another man's style? And with respect
    to casting substance is the stuff that is substance for everyone? Or - substance is the stuff that
    has global application?
     
    Thanks
     
    Walter
     

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    Walter,

    Walter....
     
    I think you are correct.   Can you come up with an example or two to help make your point ?
     
    Gordy
     
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    Walter's answer.  I placed his paragraph on translation and rotation in bold italics :   Gordy
     
    Gordy
     
    Thanks!
     
    Examples for the global application stuff is relatively easy. The 5 essentials come to mind immediately.
     
    Things that would be substance for one caster and style for another is a lot tougher.
     
     
    We've had recent discussion about drag and rotation. Obviously nobody casts using drag or translation
    only but my mathematician's thought processes tell me that nobody casts using pure rotation only. Even if the
    eccentricity of the casting motion is miniscule I doubt if it is ever a perfect circle. Each of us will use a
    varying degree of translation in our casts and will apply it in different ways. Some will use it to lengthen
    their casting stroke, for example, to help eliminate tailing loops or they will use longer casting strokes
    to reduce stress on their joints. For some of these people the use of translation will be substance but
    the fact remains that the majority of motive force comes from rotation and most people (unless they
    have some physiological issues that prevent them) can learn to make their casts using almost pure
    rotation. This is what makes rotation a substance element and translation a style element - because
    rotation applies to everyone, while the amount of translation is dependent on the individual.
     
     
    Another possible area - grip. Some people find that a three point grip reduces wristing. That would make
    this particular grip substance to the individual but when we look at grip the global substance elements
    are that we need to be able to apply force to the rod in the direction of the cast, provide a
    firm base for the rod to unload against and prevent rod wobble during the cast. Which particular
    grip works best for an individual is not necessarily the best overall grip for everyone. Also, while a particular
    grip may reduce wristing, another grip would probably work just as well with a bit of practice. That makes
    the choice of grips a style element with respect to a wider audience.
     
    Another one that I came across recently was stance for spey casting. The instructor felt that having the right
    foot forward for a right handed caster helped to control upper body motion during the sweep/back cast. I tried
    this and found that it did indeed make it easier. That would make the stance in this case a substance element
    for me as an individual. But then I'm a novice spey caster, so while it did help initially, we both know that with
    a bit of practice the choice of stance won't make a difference in the long run. We also know that you have
    to learn to cast with all kinds of stances when you are fishing. Definitely a style element from a global standpoint.
     
    Cheers
     
    Walter
     
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    Walter,
     
     
      Interesting way of looking at it !
     
    With that reasoning, DRAG is fundamental to Rick Hartman's distance cast and therefore can be considered an individual's substance.  With Steve Rajeff, it isn't necessary for his cast and so if he did chose to use it, we could say that for him it is optional. A manifistation of style change.
     
    When I elect to use lots of drag, it is for a particular purpose.... increased distance when I need it to reach a fish way out there. In that event, it would be an application of a style to solve a fishing/casting situation.  It isn't part of my default style.
     
    Here's another thought:  The caster can form a loop using only rotation.  He can also do it with a combination of translation and rotation.  He can't really do it with pure translation alone.
     
    As you pointed out, most casts made by most casters use a combinaion of translation and rotation.
     
    The term DRAG, however, has been used by distance casters to refer to pure or almost pure translation prior to the advent of rotation.  This isn't the same thing as the translation mixed with rotation found with most casts.  So we can look at DRAG as something which can be added to a cast but which is not a necessary ingredient for all casts.  Therefore from a global perspective, I agree with you that it is style, not substance.
     
    Gordy
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    Comment by Mack Martin:
     
    Gordy:
     
    Just a thought on the subject of "Drag", if you attempt to make a cast by utilizing drag to delay the rotation of the cast, the casting analyzer will almost always see that as creep. Just the slightest rotation taking place during translation of the rod butt will be recorded as "creep".
     
    Mack Martin
     
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    Mack....
     
    Yes.  We must remember that the CA actually measures one thing:  Angular acceleration plotted against time.
     
    In the event we had a caster who had DRAG performed with no rotation at all, we'd see only the time interval.
     
    Gordy
     
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