Walter & Group....
I had asked Mark Sedotti for more information on weight balanced flies. As an aside, I thought many of you might be interested in his informative reply, so I placed it in an attachment. I learned a lot from this. G.
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From Craig Buckbee :
Gordy,
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Craig: Yes, I love those neat word pictures. Great teaching material.
Dennis Grant and I were discussing this today as he was giving me some Spey pointers. Seems that the best instructors have clear word pictures and lots of them so that when one word scenario doesn't stick in the student's brain, they have many others one of which just might light the fuse.
Gordy
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Practice Targets / Distance
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From Gary Kell :
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From: Mark Sedotti
[marksedotti@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:14 PM To: masterstudygroup@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Practice methods for DISTANCE / Wt. Balanced Flies Hi Gordy, With a properly weight balanced fly there's no need to "chuck and duck", and of course, if you're a good caster you can cast them (any size giant fly) about as far as you can cast any size fly - very small included. You add weight to the fly (if it needs it) so that the drag of the fly is neutralized. The more wind resistent the fly (usually the bigger), the more weight it needs. The less wind resistent, the less. Take a giant fly (unweighted) - say 14 inches big. You cast it, and it drags badly. You add some weight by wrapping some weighted wire to the hook bend. Cast that, and it casts better. Add still more weight and it casts - and FALSE CASTS - even better. Add a little more weight and it false casts and casts really well. Add a little more after that, and it doesn't cast quite as well. It's a little harder to control. Add more than that, and it becomes even more uncontrollable. The point (and amount of weight) where the fly false casted best, and casted best and easiest, was (and is) the point of WEIGHT BALANCE for that particular fly. EVERY fly, no matter what size it is, has that point. And this is IMPORTENT! It's the reason why flies are castible. Now when you tie that big fly again, put that optimal amount of weight (the amount where it false casted and casted best) IN THE FLY. Remember, weight can be anything in the fly, the materials, absorbed water, wire, hooks, and added weight. Eyes too. It can be anything that contributes weight to the fly. You have to remember also, heavily weighted flies (usually small), like crabs and heavy, sparsely tied Clousers, as well as small weighted nymphs, don't cast well because they're out of weight balance. They're NOT weight balanced. They're TOO HEAVY (for the amount of materials in the fly). But, If you added wind resistent materials to these flies to the point where they false casted and casted best - and this WOULD happen -, then they'd be weight balanced, wouldn't be "too heavy" (not in your mind any more, believe me - my giant flies are heavy, you can cast them with a spinning rod, but NO WAY NEAR as far as you can with a fly rod) and they would cast reasonably (if not outright, very) well. They might not, though, function the way you'd want them to. They might not drop quickly enough. I've been saying all this at just about every casting demonstration I've done in the last ten years or so. All flies that cast well, no matter WHAT SIZE they are, are weight balanced. They HAVE to be. It's old thinking that says only the fly line is importent for casting the fly or for good castibility. That the fly only goes along for the ride - that's why it must be small, and light enough if small, or plenty light enough, if it was bigger. I've realized that this was, and is, incomplete. In a sense, it was wrong from the beginning. From the start, that fly (and how it was constructed - any castible fly was weight balanced - if it wasn't, and therefore wasn't castible, it soon went into the garbage pail and was forgotten - except for a meager few like bass bugs, weighted nymphs, and later, Clousers and heavy crabs) was just as responsible for good castibility as was the fly line. This holds for all flies, tiny to giant - they all play by the same rules. It's why that piece of yarn just doesn't act like a fly. Modern thinking should realize, that - for good castibility- a correctly designed (and correctly "weighted" - again, weight can be weight of anything - a very small fly doesn't need much, but it DOES need something, even if it's a small hook) fly is equally as importent as the fly line. It's been there all along, and it just took the designing of castible giant flies to perceive it. It's a lot more than it, "just goes along for the ride". Gordy, when you weight balance those billfish flies correctly, they'll cast SO much better. It'll be easy. Best regards, Mark From: masterstudygroup@xxxxxxxxxxx To: marksedotti@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Practice methods for DISTANCE / Wt. Balanced Flies Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:59:57 -0400 Mark & Group... WE HAVE LOTS OF HINTS FOR PRACTICING DISTANCE CASTING WITH THE MESSAGES, TODAY. Gordy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From Jerry Puckett on practice distance casting. My comments in his text in bold blue italics. G.:
Mark Sedotti answers my question about large weight-balanced flies : Hi Gordy, The longest (and biggest) fly I've tied is 27 inches long. It was wide too. I tied it up for somebody who was going to troll Great Bear Lake in the Northwest Territories for giant Lake Trout. I weighted it the same as I did (and do) a fifteen inch, or 14, or 17 inch fly. I didn't weigh it. I actually never have weighed any of my flies. I bet it would weigh about two big hooks, wire in between, and an equivalent of three large size Spirit River weighted dumbell eyes. Maybe four. Plus some absorbed water in the synthetic materials. I was curious to see how it casted so I took it down to the water and casted it 100 ft. It casted surprizingly well. But I had a hunch it would. The biggest I've fished is 17 inches long (of course wide too). Gordy, I also fished that one for Lake Trout in Northern Canada, and was easily fishing it with an 8 wt. rod and a 9 wt. WF floating fly line. Fishing it (and casting of course) the entire length of the fly line (line was 100 or 105 ft.) if I wanted to, no problem. Weight balancing makes that much of a difference. The biggest flies I've casted at my demonstrations at the Fly Fishing Shows I think was 25 inches long. Often 20 and 22 inches. I ended the shows by sometimes casting these with a 5 wt. rod to show, one, that it can be done, and two, to show the effectivness of weight balancing and what it opens up. I haven't casted the real big ones in the last couple of years. I sort of got bored. 12 to 15 inches is big enough for an effect. I hit 'ol Al in the head with one (and didn't know it until he told me about it a couple years later) down at the show in Arlington, Texas. How 'bout THAT! Hope All Is Well, Mark ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mark: I've seen you cast a monster fly at a Denver Show. Wows the troops ! The only thing I've run across on weight balanced flies is what I've heard from you. I'd like to learn how to do that. The heaviest flies I generally use are he larger of my permit flies. They weigh between 1/8th oz. and (The largest we call the "Double Dong" is 1/4 oz.) These are definitely way out of balance for the reason that I like the fly to hit the water, then immediately turn hook eye down and sink rapidly that way. We like that because that is the way a small blue claw crab dives down into the grass or sand when a predator like a permit approaches. If it hits bottom and the permit doesn't take it, I'll gently twitch it once. If he still refuses it, I'll put the rod tip into the water and v e r y s o w l y draw it along the bottom so it acts like a crab crawling. If it gets stuck in the grass, I just wiggle it very gently and sometimes the permit will pluck it out of the grass for me and we have a hookup. Of course they don't cast well at all. For that reason, I'll either use a side arm cast with an upward delayed curve or an elliptical ("Belgian" ) cast..... the latter if I need distance as well as accuracy. We've used 12" and 14" large heavy flies ..... tied with 2 #4/0 hooks in tandem, with an epoxy slider or popper head for billfish. Here casting isn't much of an issue, because we've teased the fish up so the cast is only 20' to 35 ' if that. We call it "Chuck-&-Duck". Even so, an elliptical cast works best for me. Gordy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check it out. |