Wind practice / Pain after casting

I finally got caught up on reading all my saved messages, it is nice to be current again.

Knowing that you (Gordy) are a specialist when and where wind-casting is involved, anything I can add will surely be less than spectacular.

On windy days, I make a serious attempt to get out and cast for distance. I cast with the wind from the rear for a while then turn around to cast into a head-wind.

It is important to know that when making a back cast into a appreciable wind, that although a haul and a narrow loop are naturally called for, chances are that you will not be able to shoot line into the wind. An important aspect of this situation, is that you do not attempt to return the hauling hand toward the stripping guide. With no line being fed due to the wind, you will be creating slack between the line hand and the stripping guide. It is advisable instead, to make a single haul on the back cast and then another haul with the front stroke. By practicing under these type circumstances, you also learn to adjust your timing as required when your back cast is being made into the wind. It is also important to realize that the wind can be used to your advantage on the ensuing front cast. This brings to mind what I believe Tom White use to say to his classes. "I have bad news and good news today, the bad news is the wind is blowing. The good news is the wind is blowing."

I personally like to make repeated cast into the wind while watching the results which enable me to better understand what I can and cannot accomplish when dealing with various wind speeds. This is also a very fruitful method of improving both your loops and your hauling.

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Bob .... Good point about avoiding slack. This is even more important when casting with high winds.

You are right in that it is not easy to shoot line on the back cast into a strong wind. It is possible, however, to shoot some line on that back cast if your back cast loop is really tight and you have altered your trajectory so that the back cast is aimed low and your forward cast higher for 180 degrees between them. High line speed is also needed.

For this, Lefty's technique of bringing the back cast all the way back to a stop .... not stopping first and then drifting works well for me in a strong back wind. This can be combined with a back thrust for max. effect.

We all remember that quote from Tom White ! So true.

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From David Lambert :

Gordy:

Some time ago an article appeared in one of the fly mags that debunked

the casting-under-the-wind theory. The article offered science to prove

that wind close to the water's surface was insignificantly less strong

than wind at a normal loop-formation height. The conclusion was that it

did no good to cast close to the water in order to beat the wind.

I respectfully but emphatically disagree. I've just seen to much

anecdotal evidence thats disagrees with their conclusion. I've cast in

winds all my life, including wave-break generated winds. I feel

strongly that keeping the line close to the water (under the wind) helps

deliver a fly in head winds.

My opinion is the study diminished the effect of surface friction on

water; they may have neglected to factor it altogether. We know this

affects virtually anything with mass (and wind has mass). Ripply or

wavy water produce more surface area, thus more surface friction, than

flat water. The result is diminished wind strength closer to an

interrupted surface.

I once heard a meteorologist explain that this is why upper level winds

are greater than winds closer to the earth--surface friction slowed them

down.

Anybody else feel the same?

BTW -- my casting tip is to cast close to the water to beat the wind.

Cut some of this if it's too long. I tried to keep it short.

David Lambert

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David...

The article to which you refer was published in the Spring, 2001 issue of the Loop, entitled: UNDER THE WIND.

It was written by Larry Pratt, CCI, an instructor at the Woods Hole Oceanographis Institute. He's was also an instructor at MIT.

I spoke with him about this a couple of years ago. That graph of wind speed plotted against height over water was made from actual recordings ...... but over calm water, not waves and with great fetch with no wind breaks of any kind.

I'm sure you are correct about the waves effect on wind/water friction. When casting out on the ocean with significant wind and large waves, we sometimes even await that break offered by the high crests. Any experienced surf fly fisherman knows this well and literally picks his wave for a presentation for this (and other reasons).

If we revisit that graph, we see that there IS significant diminution of wind speed up to 4' above the water surface... so the wind caster who uses an off horizontal rod plane and keeps the whole cast at or below that level certainly does gain significant wind break. While the frictional components were not noted, I do think you are correct that this is the reason for this break. Larry does state in his writing :

" Throwing a tighter loop (and maintaining an upright casting posture) will lower the path of the fly and will diminish wind resistance. it will not, howerver significantly deminish wind speed at the fly level. To do that the caster could use a side -arm motion, putting the loop in a horizontal plane perhaps 4 feet off of the ground. The wind speed at this elevation is more like 18 mph., giving some advantage but not a lot." (Wind speed on the graph was 24 mph at 40').

Once the cast is made higher than this, the break almost disappears..... though even then, not completely (as his graph shows.) There is even a slight difference in wind speed between the 10' and the 35' levels over the water.

Your comment about surface interruption is right on. Rocks and flotsam serve as frictional wind breaks as well. I'm convinced (though I have no data) that strong currents counter to the wind make a difference as well.

Gordy

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From Tim Lawson:

Hi Gordy,

Some tips on practicing in high winds:

WEAR YOUR GLASSES
Wear a broad-brimmed hat
Try not to position yourself too close to women and young, impressionable children
Practice with the wind coming at all directions, not just a head wind
Concentrate on the basics, ie, a tight loop as opposed to brute force
Practice delivering your back cast
Practice change-of-direction casts. These are frequently more challenging than just a “basic” cast.

Tim

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Tim.... Interesting advice. Especially with respect to #'s 4, 5 and 6.

I don't know about that hat. Mine blows off unless too tight for comfort ! A chin strap annoys me. I fish in wind so much that I have a string around my neck to the back side of my cap.

Very good point about practicing with wind in ALL DIRECTIONS. Not just the primary directions, but with quartering winds. Best not to do that, however, until you have become pretty good at practice with wind from the 4 cardinal points: Front, Back and either side. Quartering winds can yield some confusing issues especially when practicing for accuracy in wind.

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PAIN AFTER CASTING

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From Liam Duffy:

Hi Gordy,
Just a short note about pain from casting. I had a problem prior to doing the THCI and Al Buhr (God Bless Him!)talked to me about it and sent me a book "Fit to Fish" by Stephen L. Hisey, P.T. and Keith R. Berend, M.D. It is published by Frank Amato Publications in Portland, Oregon. The only thing I can say about this book is that it is brilliant. It covers, Shoulder inpingemant syndrome, Tennis elbow and Golfers elbow,Wrist Tendonitis and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, Low back pain, Knee and ankle pain/instability, etc all in clear language. It give a very clear description o each problem, the causes and the cure. I suffered with tennis elbow, carpal Tunnel syndrome and a little Shoulder impingement. As a layman (someone with no medical qualifications or background) I found the exercises a great help in solving my problems and would strongle recommend it to anyone who has any of the above problems
Hope this helps someone,
Best Regards, Liam Duffy

P.S. As a Medical man what are your views ?

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Liam... I can't comment on a book I haven't read. I will get a copy, read it and report back.

I will say that carefully done exercises can help. Some are harmful, especially repetative motions made against resistance and most especially those which by themselves result in pain.

An exercise program (properly designed) prior to casting events can help prevent some of these problems, too.

I believe that Gary Eaton and Dusty Sprague will be giving a Workshop on this subject at Loveland Conclave this year.