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  • Litle caster/ Glass rods -SNYE



    Walter & Group...

    From Peter Morse:

    Gordy I have seen that little animated caster on the net for a few 
    years, it drives me nuts..............

     I stopped guiding because I 
    couldn't bear to see casting like that day after day with no 
    improvement no matter what you tried to do to help. My worst offender 
    was a supreme court judge, and of course he wouldn't be told by 
    anyone. That little animation is a form of torture............

    Peter Morse

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Peter...

    You must admit, it does get our attention as instructors !

    Same as I agonize over the fly casting seen on TV or the loops in some fishing magazines.  Even some of the way-out advice given by some who write articles on how to cast.  One recent one "taught" the pile cast with no regard for trajectory, line plane, or the back cast.  Make no mistake, some of these articles are on target.  Others glaringly deficient.

      In the real life of teaching students to fly cast, there is the occasional caster who "just doesn't get it".  In some cases, that individual starts lessons with another instructor and does better.  We've all seen that happen.

    Our ego's tell us that as individual instructors we can overcome just about any of these challenges.... but it isn't always true.  The student who continues to do poorly, may do so because of a variety of learning problems and may respond to a different instructor in a different venue and with the use of different techniques and word pictures.

    Tom White and I would occasionally trade students for private instruction with this in mind.  It often worked.

    This will happen less often as we grow as teachers.  There are many ways of doing so, including all sorts of continued education, but the two best, in my opinion, are :

    1.) Lots of teaching experience  and 2.) Communication with others who do what we do including actually witnessing them as they teach.

    This is one of the great values of our conclaves.

    One of the greatest teaching experiences in my life is found as we on the Casting Board of Governors get together and teach one another.  If you think about it, without actually getting together and casting, this is what we are doing with this Group.

    As for the judge, "There are none so blind as those who will not learn "  (Anon.)

    Gordy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    From Thomas Berggren :

    Hi Gordy,

     

    The little”casters” got lost in cyberspace on their way to Sweden…. Can’t see them!!

    Do any one else have the same problem?

     

    By the way!

    I have sent this youtube link to Denise & Liz…..

     The idea of giving casting instructions on film is good…

     Here is one that covers all. Both double and single hand, but this guy did it in the year 1920…. How about that ;-)

     

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa7Yrtfz2do

     

    Enjoy

     Thomas//

     

    Regards//

     

    Thomas Berggren, Certified Instructor
    FFF - Federation Of Fly Fishers,
    CCI - Certified Casting Instructor
    THCI - Two Handed Certified Instructor.

    EFFA - European Fly Fishing Association,
    CI - Certified Instructor.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Thomas ....   THANKS !   I know some of our members did get it and I got it on my other sites .... I'll try to forward it to you privately.  I, also, tried to include both casters and a message with this one.  Hope it works.

    Now we have a new catagory.  We'll call it FLICKERBOOKCASTING from your u-tube flic !   (I remember, my grandfather had some of those.)

    Gordy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

     

    From Rick Whorwood:

    Hi Gordy
    One glass rod I had for many years, was a Lee Wulff (Garcia Conolon) I eventually sold the rod to Rob Solo who now fishes it on the Humber in NF. The rod had an original bag and case, it was a one pc 6ft.rod.  Rob was commissioned by the NF government to tye a classic fly for Joan Wulff, in memory of Lee and all his explorations in NF Atlantic fishery. The Classic was ty'd on a 14kt gold hook, which Rob made (he's a gold smith). As you know Lee was big on using short rods to land large fish !!
    Rick
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Rick....   See that depicted in THE ATLANTIC SALMON, Lee Wulff, ISBN O-8329-0267-5  pp. 37-50.  See photo. p. 97.  As you do, be careful to realize as you critique what appears to be an inefficient wide loop back cast to understand his way of making what we now call an eliptical cast.  Note the short rod.
     
    Gordy
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Rick Whorwood sent an attachment describing the SNYE.  I've attached it to this message.      G.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    From Al Crise:
     
    Howdy Gang & Gordy
     Thanking Denise for the Great Article on Tom Morgan.  I not sure what is like to cool down a Lamborghini but I will say I did enjoy the comparison. I doubt if I ever get to do either. 
     Just so you 'high speed' guys can enjoy the speed of your computer It was a 4 min 20 sec download for this ol country boy.
     
    ol Al
     
    Allen R. Crise
    FFF-Master Casting Instructor
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Al ...  I thought about that .... You are not alone. One of our members had it take 14 minutes !  Unfortunately, some of our members who don't use hi-speed computers with lots of memory may have a problem loading and unloading video clips of casting, too. 
     
    A few days ago, Bruce Richards sent me a video and computer readout on a casting problem.  He told me that when he tried to attach it to the message to me that it shut down his entire computer.  After getting that fixed, he made a disc and sent it by snail-mail.  One of my brothers still uses Web TV !  He gets shut down regularly with the slightest overload.
     
       G.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    From Walter Simberski on using a fly when "centerpinning" :
     
    Gordy,
     
    WIth respect to Jim's idea of rigging up his fly equipment to duplicate centerpinning:
     
    I recommend using a long rod. A spey rod in the range of 11-15 feet would work. Probably a slower action 6 or 7 weight to start with if going
    for river run steelhead or rainbows. A heavier weight for larger fish.
     
    The line is relatively unimportant for river fishing but 10-12 pound mono is the preferred line since you want to keep as much line off the
    water as possible for drag free drift.
     
    For the reel I would recommend getting one that has a click and pawl drag and removing the drag components. The bearings won't be of
    the same quality as a good centerpin reel but it should work reasonably well with respect to drift. It won't work as well for casting or for
    for quick line retrieves. One of the cool things with the centerpin reels is that if you have a lot of slack for whatever reason you can retrieve
    it very quickly by batting the rim or giving a quick crank on the handle and releasing it and allowing it to spin freely to suck up the slack
    quickly.
     
    Cheers
     
    Walter
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Walter:   I think that might well be deadly for steelhead. 
     
    HOWEVER:  I must say that since no fly casting is really involved, I'd equate this with the folks who use fly tackle while trolling the fly to catch ocean fish.  Not fly fishing at all in my personal opinion.
     
    Gordy
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
     

     


     

    Title: snye, a 100% Canadian word at Bill Casselman's Canadian Word of the Day at www.billcasselman.com
    ï From: Rick Whorwood [whorwood@xxxxxxxxx]
    Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 5:37 PM
    To: Gordy Hill
    Subject: Emailing: snye
     

     

    Verminâs Snye is a fictional location in the game of Everquest, a Dungeon-like computer game. Snye also dots the map of Canada from Quebec to Alberta. Hereâs a Canadian word with a root leading back to Egyptian hieroglyphics and to cuneiform tablets of ancient Babylon. The root of the word snye is certainly 6,000 years old, probably much older. Wordwise, that is ancestry!

    In the Canadian English dialect of the Ottawa Valley, and now in many other parts of Canada and in a few localities in the United States, a snye is a side-water channel that rejoins a larger river, creating an island, and sometimes conveniently providing canoeists passage around turbulent rapids or around a waterfall. The word is an Englishing of the QuÃbÃcois French chenail, âchannel.â Chenail is an Acadian dialect form of the standard continental French word for water channel, chenal. Snye is spelled the way it is in Canadian English because it imitates the Quebec pronunciation of chenail, which is shneye, to rhyme with eye. Because the second syllable of chenail is stressed hard, in rapid colloquial speech the unstressed first syllable of chenail tends to almost disappear, hence the pronunciation shneye. It is common in many languages for unstressed syllables to be shortened, often shortened out of existence.

    A Short Detour down the Road to Schwa

    This neutral vowel sound of unstressed syllables even has a fancy name in linguistics; it is a schwa. Schwa is an excellent Scrabble word. Schwa entered English from German where it was a German attempt to reproduce the Hebrew word sheva, the name of one of the "points" or nikaydot in Hebrew. Points are the orthographical means by which vowel sounds are represented in many Semitic languages. Sheva is a double-dot subliteral that, when placed under a Hebrew consonant, indicates no following vowel sound or a short neutral vowel sound, a schwa. An example of a schwa in English is the second syllable of the word sofa. Pronounced loosely in common North American English speech, sofa sounds like âSOH-fuh.â The fuh is a schwa, that is, all that remains of a poor little unstressed terminal a.

    Now letâs follow the circuitous but fascinating journey this word snye has taken through six thousand years. Weâll use a symbol in linguistics, borrowed from mathematics. In reference to words and word roots, the symbol < means âderives from,â âis descended from.â

    Canadian English snye < Quebec French chenail âwater channelâ < French chenal âchannelâ< Latin canalis âwater-pipe,â âlarge ditch,â âgrooveâ < Latin canna âcane,â âreedâ < Greek kanna âhollow reed.â The Proto-Indo-European root *kann meant âreedâ or âhemp plant.â Is there an echo of that root in the word cannabis, hemp plant? Yes! So Greek may have inherited its reed word kanna from the ancient mother tongue of most European languages, Proto-Indo-European.

    Or, perhaps more likely, the Greeks borrowed their kanna from one of many sources in the ancient Middle East. Compare a Biblical Hebrew word for âreed,â qaneh. Look at an Arabic word for âreed,â qanah. Go back farther to the cuneiform inscriptions of ancient Babylon and find the common Akkadian word for âreed,â kanÃ. Egyptian hieroglyphics have a generic word for âreed of the River Nile,â ganu.

    Many Canadian Place Names Use the Word Snye

    Brandon, Manitoba has its Snye River. Three Snye Rapids gurgle near Parry Sound, Ontario. Canada âs oil-and-tar-sands hub in northern Alberta is Fort McMurray. Fort McM. has Canada âs best known instance of this geographic word, locally named The Snye Water Park, âa waterway that once linked the Clearwater River to the Athabasca River. Many private and commercial air charter companies utilize the Snye for their float base operations. In order to provide travel to the resulting island, named MacDonald Island, a causeway was built. This effectively dammed the outflow of the Snye into the Athabasca River providing a secluded spot for float plane activity. Winter operations include a dropoff point for snowmobilers and public skating.â Fort McMurray âs Snye is also a spot to enjoy the brief northern summer. The Fort McMurray Rowing Club is located on the Snye.

    In southwestern Ontario, the St. Clair River has Snye Channel. It forms the eastern boundary of Walpole and St. Anneâs Island First Nations Territory, and empties into Lake St Clair. Hereâs an old postcard from 1914 showing a ferry on the snye at Wallaceburg, Ontario.

    If you have ever skated breezily along Ottawa âs frozen Rideau Canal, you may know, as a guide states, that âthe canal channel was originally a natural depression in the riverbank, known locally as the âOxford Snye.â Colonel By â Ottawa âs first name was Bytown, named after the colonel â excavated the snye and used the dug material to build the embankment. This was done to prevent water from the canal channel from entering the natural river course.â

    In British Columbia âs Fort Simpson Territorial Park, many species of birds use âThe Snyeâ as a nesting area. âThe Snye is a shallow wetland ecosystem located between the main portion of the community and the southern shoreline of the river. Many species of migratory waterfowl may be seen in season, including tundra swans and snow geese.â

    So ends our trip along the snye-like, watery path this Canadian word has taken as it has meandered through our history and through 6,000 previous years of world history.

     Â 2006 William Gordon Casselman      

    Hundreds of links to more of my word entries are available below.

     

     

    Google
     

    HOME

     

     

     
    Title: Message
    From: Bob Rumpf - The Flye & The Pen [caddis@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 4:09 PM
    To: Gordon Hill
    Subject: Re: Bob's little casters
    Hi Gordy,
     
    I'll try sending it as an attachment. Whether the little dude will be active once it arrives, I honestly don't know.
     
    Bob
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:26 PM
    Subject: RE: Bob's little casters

    Bob....
     
    I tried to include the little caster with the message for the Group, but when I tried to "save as" the text came through with out the animated caster.
     
    Perhaps you could send it to me as an attachment and have it so the caster is active (????)  Or, perhaps as a link ?
     
    Gordy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Bob Rumpf - The Flye & The Pen [mailto:caddis@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:52 AM
    To: Gordy Hill
    Subject: Re: Bob's little casters

    Hi Gordy & Group,                                                  
     
    I recently sent a message to Gordy using my angling book business stationery. The little animated fly caster above was included with that message. Gordy being ever the instructor with the thoroughly ingrained habit of studying every cast he watches naturally had to critique the little fellow. I should, in all fairness, also mention that in a message to Tony Loader, Tony also found fault with the little guy. I am now seriously concerned that our group studies may be creating casting essentials geeks.
     
    I would reply to all this by adding another little caster to the mix. I find this little gentleman to either have an unbelievably fast and efficient stroke I wish I could mimic, but I'mquite  sure it would be difficult to get it past MCI examiners.
     
                                                                                                                                                       
    Regards,
     
    Bob Rumpf
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Gordy Hill
    Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:47 AM
    Subject: Slide loading- comments /

    Bob & Group...

    Bruce Richards' comments on our last string of messages on slide loading including the note from Peter Morse.  Notes between us follow:

     


    Thanks Gordy, very interesting.  It does sound like Peter isn't including
    the line hand "slide" in his description of slide loading, in which case it
    is simply drag.... Personally, I can't see any advantage to slide loading,
    don't see how it would make any cast smoother, or more powerful... Seems to
    me that simply moving the line hand back to the reel a little sooner so
    both hands can move forward together makes a lot more sense, and would be
    more effective. That's what most good casters do.

    Do you see ways slide
    loading can improve anything?
    Bruce

    Scientific Anglers/3M
    4100 James Savage Rd.
    Midland, MI  48642  USA
    Tel:  989-496-1113
    Fax:  989-496-3374

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bruce....

    The only thing I can see as an advantage is that as a matter of style it
    might make casting a tad more comfortable for some casters.  I think, too,
    that some might cast a little more smoothly by using it. ..... Again, a
    matter of style NOT SUBSTANCE.   I really think casters who use it have
    started with it without realizing what the dickens they are really doing.
    Even Joan, who first described it, tells it that way.

     I had posed that little "quiz" on the
    subject to all 189 of the folks in the Group and then distilled the
    answers.  Interesting to get those Group opinions.

    Gordy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

    Gordy,
    I agree entirely. I suppose some could find slide loading (terribly name
    for the motion) "comfortable", I really don't see any possible physical
    advantages. They would be better off learning not to use this crutch. But
    as long as some advocate perceived advantages there will be those who try
    to adopt it.

     Interesting that the suggested advantages of smoothness (no
    explanation for why), and increased rod load (probably just the opposite is
    true) are very poorly explained, and there is a good reason!

    We just need to continue to challenge things like this so they don't become
    accepted, if something can't be explained logically, there is most likely a
    problem...

    Very interesting discussion though, and allows us to reinforce the really
    important things about a good cast.


    Bruce

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bruce now places his comments in the answers to our little quiz on slide loading.  Each of his comments are preceeded by ****** and are in bold red italics. My comments in blue italics:-


    QUIZ ON SLIDE LOADING......   RESULTS :-


    1.)  Most thought it didn't really increase distance for most casters.  A
    couple of answers included the caveat that it might if it was used as a
    caster's own style.


    2.) Many felt it was an issue of style, not a fault.  Some said it might
    mask a fault.


    *****Slide loading as described would slightly reduce the ability to
    straighten the line with a "drag" before a cast. While probably not a
    fault, certainly not something that would improve a cast..

    Agree.  G.


    3.) Most thought it could be a fault if done incorrectly.


    4.) Almost all felt tht it could smooth out the cast if done properly with
    good timing.  No one said it couldn't, but some said that they just didn't
    know.


    *****Has anyone explained how ?, I still don't see this....

    In the event we have a caster who is applying a sudden spike of power at the start, then I can see giving back a little line as the line hand is moved toward the rod hand could moderate this and result in a smoother application of power.  If that were the case, it would be  masking a fault .    G.


    5.)  Half thought that it could result in shortening the stroke or rod arc
    if done improperly.


    *****As described, could shorten stroke, not arc. If arc is shortened that
    would be due to creep.

    Yes.... since creep is a rotational defect, it would use up some available rod arc.   G.

    6.)  No one figured that it would really increase the total rod load.  One
    answered, "not much".


    ******If anything it could reduce rod load due to reduced line
    straightening...


    7.)  Most agreed that slide loading could distribute the same load over a
    different time interval.


    *****I don't see how the time interval would be changed. The loop will
    straighten at the same time as it would without SL and that is what
    dictates when the next cast starts. I don't see how SL would change when
    unload happens. If load starts and stops at the same time either way,
    interval remains the same..

    By time interval, I meant the timing of the application of power / load.  NOT the timing (cadence) of the cast. I agree that it won't change the timing of the unfurling of the loops and therefore not that of the cast.   G.


    8.)  Opinion was divided almost equally on whether this would be helpful.


    9.)  All said that a well informed Master should be familiar with it.


    *****Agreed.


    10.)  No one said that we should be teaching it to our advanced students,
    though some said we should do that if asked.


    *****As long as the student was told that benefits are unlikely...


    11.)  No one felt that we should criticize and/or eliminate its use if we
    found that one of our advanced students was slide loading.


    *****Never criticize, but I'd sure try to get rid of it in a student who
    was striving for distance.


    12.)  Opinion was almost equally divided as to whether the term, SLIDE
    LOADING, was a misnomer.


    *****Since it causes no loading, and potentially slightly decreases it
    during the stroke, I'd sure call it something else.


    13.)  Everybody except one agreed that it would probably remain a
    controversial subject.  Some pointed out that this was OK.


    *****Agreed....


    Gordy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    From Raffaele Mascaro. (For those of you who might not know, Raf is one of our International CBOG's from Italy) :-


    Hi Gordy,

    Happy New Year from Italy !

    I like the Peter's description "leading with the butt". This is something
    particularly used in Italy. As you know most of the italian fly anglers
    like fishing with short rod and ultra-light flylines (mainly DT2 or DT3),
    rods are fast and mainly tip action. Sometime to make a longer cast there
    is the need of "leading with the butt". Rotation is at the end of a very
    long stroke , rod hand is well behind the shoulder in the backcast ..
    If everything is done properly, at the end of backcast , the natural
    position of line hand is very close to the ring and the rod is almost
    parallel to the ground. I don't have technical data to support but you can
    feel the flyline pulling the line hand and in this way the waste of energy
    looks almost zero.
    On the forward cast again the rotation will be at the end of the stroke.
    When student ask for this style I explain them to be concentrated on the
    butt section and to pull it as long as possible. A good example is if the
    feeling of pulling away an elastic band from a fixed support.
    Another good exercise is to try to cast only with hands...tiring but
    effective to keep energy in something can't load like a rod. If I remember
    well I showed some casts to Jim during the last Conclave.

    Best Regards
    Raf

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Raf ...   I agree fully (as does Bruce Richards) that this is a very effective technique..   Some call it "dragging". Others call it "pulling".  

     I look at it as a translational movement of the fly rod prior to rotation (rod arc.).  It has been well demonstrated that using this translation to delay rotation can be very effective.

    I really like your word picture and the concept of how it feels !

    Since you don't describe any movement of the line hand back toward the rod hand as this is done, I wouldn't consider it  Slide loading.

    Have a great New Year !!!

    Gordy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

    From Bruce Richards:


    Agreed, typical "pulling" cast...
    Bruce

    Scientific Anglers/3M
    4100 James Savage Rd.
    Midland, MI  48642  USA
    Tel:  989-496-1113
    Fax:  989-496-3374

     






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