"Ticking"

Walter & Group...

Dan Storaska re- sent his message which I accidentally erased, yesterday:-

Gordy,

 

Thanks for the info on PHW - sounds like a terrific program. 

 

Question on a different topic.  I've recently acquired a 10wt rod and have been casting with it as part of every practice to increase strength.  It's funny because when I switch from it back to my normal 7wt. rod during practice it feels like I just went from swinging around the trunk of a tree to one of its branches (I'm sure when I go fishing with my 4wt trout rod on the first day here coming up it'll feel like a twig).  I've found that this heavy rod practice really helps build up strength in particular for opposite shoulder (or across body) casting.

 

In any case, I do often notice that as I try to carry more line (on the order of 60 feet or so), the line tends to brush the ground behind me during the forward cast which destroys the cast.  After looking at the backcast it still seems to unroll quite nicely back there (it's not directed down or anything) but the 10wt line just falls so much more quickly compared to my 7wt.  Have you noticed this in your students switching to saltwater casting?  What would your remedy be?  Reducing pause time is fine, but for longer casts, this doesn't seem to be a good solution.  Is a greater angle to the see-saw technique [as described in Joan Wulff's Fly Fishing Techniques] required here?

Dan

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Dan...  I didn't answer every part of your question. 

I do see this often as casters unaccustomed to heavy salt water tackle begin to practice.... but I don't think gravity is treating the heavier lines any differently than the lighter ones ...... ( Theoretically, if we drop to objects which have the same atmospheric resistance but of different mass, they should arrive on the ground at the same time. )  Now, as I think about it, I really don't know if the atmospheric resistance to the falling line is greater relative to its weight per length.

When using heavier flies it may make some difference because the air resistance to the light fly relative to its mass is greater.  This is just a thought .... no hard evidence.

Perhaps one of our techy's can help us here.

Gordy

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Guy Manning comes in with a factor I hadn't considered :-

If Dan is using a sinking or intermediate line the tick can come from an inadequate leader at the end of the line. Usually caused by poor dissipation of energy at the junction of the line and the leader or not long enough of a leader for the energy passed into it.

 

 

Guy Manning

FFF Master Certified Casting Instructor

Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo Group

www.castflys.net

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Guy...   Are you referring to a bull whip like snap as the loop unfurls with too much remaining energy in the system ? ... or the "ticking" as the fly line briefly hits the ground ?

Gordy

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Tony Loader agrees with Guy :

Hi Gordy,

 

The leader/fly configuration can also be a contributor. If I steepen my taper and/or increase the mass of my yarn fly by including a knot or two, I can accentuate the assembly's tendency to "tuck" thus making an overpowered curve easier to achieve. 

 

In the vertical plane however, the "tuck" can become a "tick" (and certainly doesn't assist hovering).

 

Regards,

Tony.

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Tony & Guy ......   I tried to make those ticks by changing leaders.  YOU ARE BOTH CORRECT.   In our case, however, Tom and I didn't change leaders.  I don't know if Dan did.      Gordy

 

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 From Al Crise:-

Howdy Gordy & Gang

  The "tick" for most beginners starts in front, That is starting with the rod tip higher than the shoulder,like a plug caster, This causes a shortened stroke, so to load the rod it is carried too far back. resulting in a backcast that is downward, What we need is to make a cast that is higher than our rod's tip at the highest point in the forward cast

 In an overhead cast we start at the water, think "straight line" UP behind at about a 45 degree angle to the unrolling loop's termini. Now the forward cast is made straight ahead.  Understand that we want the mid point of the cast to pass just above the rod's tip. As in Joan titter totter fulcrum. the leader knot leaving the water point as the low end.

  If we shoot line into the back cast this is when the "drift" is needed to give the stroke needed for the longer line carried aloft. The shoot to the front does the same requiring a "follow through" to again allowing for the stroke for more line.

To adjust this angle of trajectory from high back to a lower back to send out the forward loop we just need to pause a little letting gravidity take the back cast down,a little.

 

 

typing one handed left in cast, wish I could draw. trying this

 

ol Al

 

Allen R. Crise
FFF-Master Casting Instructor
FFF-SOC VP Education http://forums.southerncouncilfff.org/
Hawk Ridge Flycasting School

 

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Al ... I considered that, but this was not what was happening when Tom White and I were scratching our heads over this.  Also, Dan stated that "(....it's not directed down or anything .)" as he critiques his own back cast.

I do think, however, that this is another way it can happen, especially with early casters.

Hope your arm gets back in shape in short order, Al.

Gordy

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I'm not immune to enjoying the simple fruits of labor.  Gratifying to see Dan Storaska's response:

Gordy,

 

You hit the nail on the head - that was fantastic.  Thanks for the note.

 

Dan

 

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