Ways of looking at slide loading

Walter & Group...

On slide loading from Ally Gowans:-

Hi Gordy,

 

Amused by the comments on slide loading but on Hogmany (tonight) without time to really study what happens I resorted to looking at a video by Jim Tomlinson who was a very successful tournament caster. He is I’m told, the World record holder for single handed distance casting having sent a fly an amazing 61.32 metres using a 9ft 6in rod and long belly WF #9 fly line, achieved in 1987 at the European Grand Prix. Anyway Jim is a small and slightly built man and now in his late 60’s remains a great fly caster. Interestingly he used no slide loading on his casts until the last back cast prior to delivery and then he did. The reason appears to be that he made a maximum length haul on that cast which meant that his arms are much further apart than normal, lots of drift as well and after slide loading during part of the time that his hand regained position his final cast is delivered high with a maximum haul. Slide loading is certainly not creep, classical creep is when distance is removed from the stroke without loading and slide loading does not do that or it would not be slide ”loading”!

 

Happy New Year to everyone, health, wealth and prosperity for the future.

 

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

 

See my web sites http://www.letsflyfish.com and http://www.flyfish-scotland.com

2009 Spey Casting and Salmon Fishing Schools at The Kenmore Hotel March 20/22, April 17/19 and June 12/14. Trout fly fishing and fly casting school "Tackling Trout" at The Kenmore Hotel May 15/16/17, 2009.See my web sites for more details of schools.

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From Jim Laing:-

Hi Gordy,

 

Fantastic start of the new year!  I really appreciate Jim Valle's summary on slide loading with Bruce's comments. 

 

(making reference to Guy's video) There appears to be significant constant loading of the rod as Jay moves forward early in the casting stroke.  With that visual, Bruce will have a difficult time convincing me the sliding movement negates any load. 

 

In response to your comment from the attached message...

 

In that video, there is tension in the flyline even in the early stages of the forward stroke - the rod is loading as the loop unrolls. Trajectory appears to be controlled more by the path the hand takes, as apposed to that of the falling line in the BC.  This may be another advantage for an elite caster. 

 

Yes....  I look at that as "pre-load".  This is especially true if the caster has shot line on the back cast.     G.

 

As I understand this, a pre-load occurs prior to the rod moving forward.  There must be a significant difference in the rod angle and the line trajectory when the rod stops on the back cast with no drift.  The line shot into the BC loads the rod prior to moving the rod with translation or rotation.  The slide-load is a forward translation move prior to the loop unfurling. 

 

Jim

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From David Leger:-

Gordy,

From a biomechanical standpoint slideloading is a way to extend the backcast to its extreme (maximum stroke length) and then maintain tension in the line while returning the arm and hand position closer to the body so as to allow the use of the larger shoulder muscles to start rod rotation.

 

As Bruce points out it's rotation that loads the rod and very little can be achieved with pure translation. But with the arm extended fully on the back cast we only have a small amount of wrist movement (flexion and some adduction) to impart rotation with relatively weaker muscles.

 

For maximum distance casting (long line) we want long stroke with body and arm extended as far back as possible. So a purely transational pull is the only way to get the hand and rod into a more conventional position to impart rotation and make the cast.

 

Dave Leger CI

chiroprator

 

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Some might think that beating a very minor subject such as slide loading to death with many messages and comments would be nothing more than, "straining at gnats".  I see it differently.

As we go into munute detail on the subject at hand, it makes us revisit basic principles ... in this case, translation vs. rotation, hauls, back cast loops, timing, application of force, momentum, etc. etc.

We can (and did) go full circle as we ask ourselves, "Is slide loading real ?..... is it an advantage ?  Is it a manifestation of STYLE ?  or is it SUBSTANCE ...perhaps something we all should do ?  I think it is STYLE.  Something which may help some casters and not others.

Each of us may take something different away with us.  Whatever that may be, we have increased our in-depth understanding of fly casting and an appreciation for different ways of teaching flycasting theory as we all learn from one another.

This from Gary Davison:-

Gordy,

 

This has been an interesting subject indeed for me to absorb.

 

My first impression was why was the word loading used in the description when the line hand was just riding with the stroke.  Base on feed back I can see why. Some are of the belief that there is loading taking place with the move.  The open side of my brain is saying yes this could be viewed as a loading affect being as the line hand is riding and holding the line in place with the rod hand to allow the rod to load evenly.

 

However, If I held the line with my index finger on the rod cork the same loading of the cast would be achieved.  So does it benefit or enhance loading of the cast????  Yes or No ;o).  I guess it depends on what side of the cast you are standing!

 

My thoughts:  The examples shown on this technique were elite distance casters Jay and Steve.  You name it the stars are aligned and the conditions are perfect for making the distance cast (ability & equipment being what they are).  My impression, based on the video is this short riding of the stroke (Slide Loading) sets up the smooth even loading of the rod at the beginning of the final forward cast.  I view this as a set up movement (Style & Substance) to initiate good power application. Meaning correct application of power at the correct time in the cast. 

 

In my humble opinion this is a very subjective subject.  These comments below by you and Bruce hit home for me.

 

There is no real reason not to "slide load" if it suits
Someones style, but the benefits gained from it will be very small, if at
All, in my opinion.... When you see top casters throwing the same distance,
Some with an early forward move, some without, it always makes me wonder
How important the extraneous move is...  Bruce Richards

Comment:  That's because it is a translational move which results in very little acceleration of the rod tip, therefore very little capacity to load the rod.    Gordy

 

Thanks a bunch for the input. 

 

All the best

 

 

    

Gary Davison

Gulf Coast Spey