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  • Centerpinning / As you help CCI Candidates to prepare



    Walter & Group....

    One of the advantages of a study group such as ours, is that we can cover topics in detail which rarely or infrequently appear in the fly casting literature.  We can cover controversial topics.  When these do appear in the literature, there is usually only one explanation and opinion.  Examples have included things like CREEP, SLIDE LOADING (Joan Wulff's writings excepted) , THE PHYSICS BEHIND CASTING MECHANICS, STYLE vs. SUBSTANCE and, now, CENTERPINNING. 

     As we do this, we tap the knowledge,experiences and expertise of well informed fly casting instructors from many countries and areas.

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    From Gary Davison:

    Hi Gordy,
     
    I am very interested in the Center Pinning technique that Walter has provide us below.  This is something I would really like to know more about. 
    If any of the group can provide additional information regarding the technique please send my way.
     
    All the best.
     
        
    Gary Davison
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    From Walter Simberski on Centerpinning :

    Gordy,
     
    The key to a center pin reel is the smooth, resistance free, operation that allows
    very long dead drifts (in excess of 200 feet is possible). The idea of the technique is to get the
    nymph into the strike zone very quickly, allow for very long drag free dead drifts, keep
    the detection system very sensitive so that even the slightest hit can be detected the instant
    it happens, and keep slack to a minimum to allow for quick hook sets.
     
    Ross makes a center pin reel called the Flow
     
    http://www.rossreels.com/products/fly-fishing-reels/flow/flow-centerpin-reels.cfm
     
    there is a nice 3d view on this site that shows how one side is open. The Ross reel includes
    a simple click and pawl drag system but it is essential in any center pin reel that the drag can
    be disengaged to ensure that it doesn't interfere with the drift. Many reels don't even have a
    drag and rely on the operator to palm the reel for drag.
     
    Most of the cost in the center pin reel comes from the bearings that are used. If you bat the spool
    with your hand to get it spinning a high quality centerpin reel will spin for several minutes. This
    is one way to tell if a reel is designed for center pinning.
     
    I haven't seen a center pin reel that incorporates the Alvey rotating spool that facilitates casting
    but that would certainly help many beginners with casting. More experienced center pinners would
    probably think of this as an unnecessary complication.
     
    You could use pretty much any type of reel for centerpinning (just as you could use any reel for fly
    fishing if the spool was large enough to hold the fly line) but then you would have to strip line off the
    reel with your line hand and then control how it is fed out with your line hand. Overall this would
    limit the length of uninterrupted drag free drifts you could get. Centerpinning is a technique that is
    designed for long runs.
     
    For shorter runs the European nymphing technique achieves the same results (drag free drift, constant
    contact with the nymph, ability to get quick hook sets).
     
    Cheers
     
    Walter
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    From Rick Whorwood:
     
    Hi Gordy
    I've seen the reel you're talking about, but they are not common here. The Center-Pins that we use, have the line coming off the same as you would a fly reel, only in free spool with no resistance. One of the tricks when buying a Center-pin / Float reel is to lay it on it's back and spin the reel (spool) if properly balanced it should rotate for a very long time, also a great time to check to see if there is any play in the spool. Lorne had a local machine shop build reels for many years, I was lucky to spin many before I would pick one to use. Walter mentioned shot on the leader, we use two different methods, we would group the shot in three's leave a space then another group, or stagger shot all the way down the leader, in both cases we'd start large and go down the micro shot. there might be as many as 10-15 shot, the idea is to get down quick, and have a nice scope where the bait kicks out front of the float, giving it a natural look. There are a number ways of casting, some cast in a side arm fashion, with the line coming of the side of the reel ( you will eventually get a twist in the line if you use this method, every once an awhile you need to let the line drift down stream to get the tangles out) the other method is to start the reel spinning and then make the cast, this will give you lots of distance and no tangles, but it takes time to learn. Hope this helps answer any questions.
    Rick
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    Rick:    Thanks.  Lots of info., there.     I've used the Alvey reels in Australia and did find (as expected) that the line eventually gets a twist just as it does when using spinning tackle.  Another disadvantage of using that reel when fly fishing is that it is very heavy.  OK for surf rods .... that is what it was really made for. 
     
    Question:   What lines do you use for this technique ?     Gordy
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    Below, you will find a letter I sent to a CCI candidate in answer to her request for information on what to study.  Then I sent a copy of the body of that message to Al Crise for his CCI Study Group.
     
    It occurred to me that this might be useful for some of you who are coaching or mentoring CCI candidates.  (This candidate is being mentored by Eric Cook (Master) of our Group.)
     
    I referred this candidate to Al Crise's Study Group.   In the even that any of you host CCI level study groups, please let us know including whether or not you wish me to list them.
     
    Gordy
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    One of the biggest problems with CCI candidates is that they have not known what to study in preparation. 

     

    Here is a list of things I can strongly suggest:

     

    1.)  Al Kyte's new book:  ORVIS GUIDE TO BETTER FLY CASTING a Problem Solving Approach.   ISBN  978-1-59228-820-0 .  This one is new.  Available at Barnes & Noble bookstores.

     

    2.) Joan Wulff's, FLY CASTING TECHNIQUES.  0-9441130-38  (CLOTH BOUND) or

                                                                        

                                                                           1-55821-354-6 (Paper back)

     

    3.) Jason Borger's THE NATURE OF FLY CASTING a modular approach.

     

         ISBN 0-9711570-0-6 .

     

    4.) Joan Wulff's FLY-CASTING ACCURACY, ISBN 1-55821-465-8.

     

     

    5.) THE ESSENCE OF FLYCASTING by Mel Krieger,  ISBN 0-944169-02-3 ..

     

    6.) MODERN FLY LINES by Bruce Richards  Copyright 1995 by Odssueus Editions, Inc. Part of LEFTY'S LITTLE LIBRARY SERIES. (No ISBN #)  This one is getting hard to find.  It is a classic, however, and an absolute MUST if you ever go on to get your Masters Cert.  (You may have to borrow it from one of the Masters if you can't find a copy.)

     

    If you have difficulty finding these books at your library or book stores, I suggest you contact :  Bob Rumph ....  caddis@xxxxxxx   (Bob is a member of our Master Study Group and has super good prices on fly casting books.)

     

     

    7.)  I'll list this one for background information realizing that not all FFF instructors are in agreement with everything printed, especially the chapter on tailing loops.  In general, however, it is a great book written by the best known teacher in all fly casting... Lefty Kreh.  Many of us have learned a great deal from this World class teacher over the years including Al Crise and Me. His style of teaching has been very effective:

     

    CASTING WITH LEFTY KREH, by Lefty Kreh : ISBN - 13: 978-0-8117-0369-7  and  10: 0-8117-0369-X ..

     

    This will give you a suburb CCI Study library.  It is a daunting task to read it all... I wouldn't expect you to do that .... but they can be used as reference material as you prepare.

     

    Books are expensive, I know.  So if you can't see your way clear to purchase them, try to gain access via your local library or fly casting friends who may be kind enough to lend them.

     

     

    8.)   ALL  The little teaching pamphlets available from the FFF office including:

     

         a. THE ESSENTIALS OF FLY CASTING by Bill and Jay Gammel.

     

         b. OBSERVATIONS ON TEACHING FLY CASTING by Mel Krieger

     

         c. STUDENT'S GUIDE TO FLY FISHING BASICS, 2nd ed. by George Hobson.

     

         d. The FFF CCI Study Guide  ( Also available via the FFF Website: WWW.fedflyfishers.org  )

     

    Those little books cost only about $2.00 apiece (unless the price has been recently raised. )

     

    VIDEOS (DVD's)   Two come to mind:

     

    1.) Joan Wulff's  DYNAMICS OF FLY CASTING (Miracle Productions, Down East Books, P.O. box 679, Camden ME, 04843 ...  (207) 594-9544

     

    2.) FLYCASTING FAULTS & FIXES with MEL KRIEGER, Krieger Enterprises, Inc. 790 27th Ave. , San Francisco, CA 94121,   (415) 752-0192

     

    Other suggestions:

     

    As you work with Eric Cook and others, be sure they include in their teachings, the following:

     

    1.  Know what makes tailing loops and how to cure them.

     

    2.  Be able to describe good timing for fly casting.  Know how to teach it in very simple terms to your students.

     

    3.  Know how to teach casting to  a student with winds from in front, in back, and from either side.

     

    4.) Learn how to teach a student application of power including rod loading and unloading the fly rod and how all this works.

     

    5.)  Learn at least three different things your student will need to change when changing from accuracy casting to a target only 15' away to a more distant target, say 50' away.

     

    6.)  Learn about other faults including one called CREEP.  Also the most common fault with beginner casters and how to cure them.

     

    7.) Learn all you can about how fly lines are rated and how to advise your students to chose one depending on their casting situations.  Know which one, for example, might be best for roll casting and which one might be best for each kind of fishing or for casting maximum distance.

     

    8.)  Eric has probably already taught you the basics of casting mechanics including things like SLP, RSP, how to make various kinds of loops for different fishing conditions, etc.  If not, I'm sure he'll be happy to do that.

     

    9.) Good to know a bit about various STYLES of casting and how that relates to the SUBSTANCE of fly casting.

     

    Al Crise and his Group members can advise you on the best choice of fly line and rod for your test, too.  This leads us to :-

     

    Last but far from least:

      

    Use my name as a reference to join Al Crise's CCI STUDY GROUP.   By doing that and participating actively you will learn a wealth of information between now and May !  Al and his Group can answer any question you might have on preparing for your exam or about teaching fly casting in general.   I'd be happy to coach you too, but our ethics committee rules won't allow me to test you if I do that.

     

    His contact address:  oldflysoup@xxxxxxxxx   Also:  flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx

     

    Good luck !

     

    Gordy

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    From Michael Jones on Slide Loading:

    I agree with this take on slide loading:


    If at any time the rod is moving forward and line is being fed toward the rod you are reducing the rod's to pull against tension--and thus line speed and loading are compromised. Worse if line is fed while moving forward the stroke length is reduced.
    If you are moving the hand toward the rod as the line unrolls I would not call that slide loading I would call that shooting line on your backcast.
    I have watched some casters do what I think is explained in the threads-- they they seem to really increase effort in the final portion of the cast.
    Damn--I wish I had taken more science classes when I was young.

    Makes sense to me, although I am not entirely convinced that we can jump to the shooting line on the backcast; maybe giving line might fit here more appropriately.

    Michael
     
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    From Troy Miller:

    My attitude toward “slide loading” (or whatever it is that is being described here), is that I would NEVER teach this to a single one of my students.  It is a STYLE that can be made to work with lots of practice.  It is NOT an intuitive technique, not one that the caster can hone by tactile cues.  Consistently optimal loading is required to achieve SLP, and it’s not something that provides the caster with a lot of feedback to analyze – other than the resulting loop after each stroke is made.  It also is not a technique that adapts well to all rod characters.  Try slide loading a medium or slow rod and see if you can “nail it just right”…

     

    As Bruce notes,  If the motion used for slide
    loading had beeen reserved for increased translation during the stroke that
    alone would account for some rod load increase. But ultimately what causes
    the rod bend is how powerfully the caster can rotate the rod and maintain
    control of the tip path, and I just don't see how slide loading contributes
    anything to that...

    I agree with him wholeheartedly on this.  One of my most repeated suggestions during “hands on” practice sessions with larger classes is to “BE A STATUE” after the stop, while the loop unrolls in each direction.  Of course, I do this to reduce students’ tendency to creep.  I’m such a believer in teaching the “statue” gimmick, that I rarely teach drift to anyone but my most advanced students.  If I can get them to stop the rod and just stay there until it’s time to start the next stroke, we’ve greatly improved the students’ casts. 

     

    Along these lines, another tool/gimmick in my teaching repertoire is my request to have each student think about “PULL THE LINE INTO MOTION”.  We’ve had the discussion years ago about pushers vs. pullers.  Yes, this is a stylistic choice, but one that I feel is more easily grasped when using the “pull” option.  To me, slide loading causes more instantaneous loading which can only be maintained by a push-type move.  Again, pinpoint timing is required by the caster to make this all work out. 

     

    Thanks again for leading so much great discussion and learning in 2008, Gordy.

     

    Regards,
    Troy Miller
    Baker Oil Tools