Slide loading - More

Walter & Group...

In private message from Lefty, I find that he completely agrees with Bruce Richards on slide loading and that he'd hesitate to teach it.

Gordy

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From Thomas Berggren:

Hi Gordy,

Notice that it would be the last string on”slide loading” but here is a reflection to Bruce Richards comments.

” I agree entirely. I suppose some could find slide loading (terribly name
for the motion) "comfortable", I really don't see any possible physical
advantages. They would be better off learning not to use this crutch. But
as long as some advocate perceived advantages there will be those who try
to adopt it.
Interesting that the suggested advantages of smoothness (no
explanation for why), and increased rod load (probably just the opposite is
true) are very poorly explained, and there is a good reason!”

First of all!
I agree……. And my reflection is relative to the distance-casting-mega-trend here in Sweden right now.

Last year here was a lot of focus on distance casting at my casting range and I had some quite good casters here to improve their distance.    

Among those casters who reached 100 - 110 feet for start there was an easily visible slide among the “wide-open-stance-casters” and hardly any slide among the “closed-stance-casters”.

I just removed the most of the slide and the “open stancers” improved more than the others. Not as smooth as they did from start, but a little bit longer casts.
As I said “I removed the most of the slide” …….

Still there was some slide/creep because they hold the line hand while rod hand stroke (for saving hauling distance to rotation position). And I notice that it was very difficult for most open stancers to reach the reel with line hand during up feed because of the body position, maximum rod arc and tip travelling distance (rod arm completely stretched in back before start the forward cast for maximum tip travelling distance).
On the other hand it was very easy to reach the reel for the closed stancers (as they already did from start).

The closed stancers couldn’t find much more line speed by their haul. For those we found the speed in the rotation, but still they casting smooth…….      

The open stancers did find more line speed by improving their haul, but the casting was not as smooth as before. They actually missed “big time” more often because of body twist & bad tracking, but it went far when they hit it….

 

So!

If there is any right hand caster out there who God shaped with a much longer left arm. Go for distance competition, use wide open stance and no slide at all…. You will rule!

 

Try it and feel the different between open & closed stance and visualize you have a very long linehand arm..

 

Hope that make sense! Could be some language difficulties here….

 

Regards// The Swede

 

 

Thomas Berggren, Certified Instructor
FFF - Federation Of Fly Fishers,
CCI - Certified Casting Instructor
THCI - Two Handed Certified Instructor.

EFFA - European Fly Fishing Association,
CI - Certified Instructor.

 

info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Lilla Malma Fishery

+46 70 889 89 32

www.lillamalma.se

Malma-Brogetorp

640 32 Malmkoping

Sweden

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Thomas...    Great observations !   I took the liberty of highlighting one statement in your text with red italics. This fits Bruce Richards' opinion and doesn't surprise me.  Note, too, that with sliding, you noted some degree of increased smoothness.   Interesting.  We have also noted worse tracking with the open stance casters who use a low elbow style if the elbow raises and lowers off an imaginary shelf.  Lefty Kreh has pointed this out in the past.

Gordy

 

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`From Bob Rumph...

Hi Gordy & Group,

 

As regards slide loading, I truly believe the only advantage was just perfectly described by Peter with these copied sentences: " In making the slide, the caster also moves the line hand back toward the rod hand which must feed some line back into the system.  This very movement would delay effective rod loading.  Some who advocate this feel that this leads to greater total rod loading once the slide is complete and rotation starts than would have occurred if slide loading had not been used." 

 

In delaying the load by the sliding move, the rod at least feels like it super-loads during the rotation. Now whether this actually increases the amount of load over what it would be with a normal stroke or just feels like it, is the remaining question. I have worked with slide loading on and off for a few years and just probably have not perfected the move to the degree where I see enough benefit to adopt it as a default style.

 

On center-pin reels: Years ago, before Salmon River in NY became a circus, we fished for steelhead every year. A group of anglers from Canada came down every year equipped with center-pins and these boys were absolutely deadly using those reels and long, thin sensitive bobbers/floats. Their long drag-free drifts were just what the doctor ordered for that style of bottom fishing.

 

Regards,

 

Bob Rumpf

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Bob.....

 

The quote, above, was from my answer to Peter.  The whole reply sent on Jan. 7 at 12:31 pm was:

 

 

"Peter,

 

Well, there is one difference.  In making the slide, the caster also moves the line hand back toward the rod hand which must feed some line back into the system.  This very movement would delay effective rod loading.  Some who advocate this feel that this leads to greater total rod loading once the slide is complete and rotation starts than would have occurred if slide loading had not been used.  Whether this is true or not, I simply don't know.  I doubt it has been measured.  Perhaps some sophisticated physics study could be made to determine this in the future.

 

As this translation of the rod occurs and the line hand slides back toward the rod hand, rotation of the rod (rod arc) is delayed. This really is not CREEP, since it doesn't use up available rod arc.  Bruce Richards and Noel Perkins have noted that creep is a rotational movement as they study this with the Casting Analyzer.

 

Gordy "

 

 

I agree that the "feel" of greater rod load which you so aptly describe, is "real" to us .... which makes it subjective.  It's just that this may not translate to actual increased total load if some smart fellow figures out a way of actually measuring it.  Thomas Berggron (above) comes close to having done that as he measures his caster's distance acheivements with and without slide loading !

 

" TO MEASURE IS TO KNOW"      Johannes Kepler  (German astronomer and contemporary of Galileo,  who had worked on the movements of the moon. A supporter of Copernicus theory of planatory movements a generation before Isaac Newton.

 

He was a strange combination of scientist and poet / philosopher .... "The heavenly motions...are nothing but a song...perceived not by the ear, but by the intellect."   Kepler)

 

Gordy

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