[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
  • Thread Index
  • Date Index
  • Subject Index
  • Difficult student / the STOP



    Walter & Group...

    From David Leger:

     Nothing worse than trying to help someone that doesn’t want to be helped…………….they will make you wrong!

     Dave Leger

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

    Like the chap who brings his son for lessons when the youngster would much rather be out with his friends and doesn't have the slightest interest in learning fly casting. 

    My youngest brother, Mackey, once told a good friend that he didn't want to fish with me any more because, as he put it, "when I fish with Gordy every trip becomes a casting lesson."   That was many years ago.  I learned a lot from that.  Now I can't help but critique every cast I see..... but I remain silent unless asked for help.   With our students it's different, because they come to us for help ..... at least most of them.   G.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    From Walter Simberski:

    Gordy,
     
    On the "difficult" students - some of my experiences:
     
    - Sometimes you need to understand the motivation for a person attending a class. I told you previously
      about a father/daughter team I taught. The father was progressing as expected but the daughter kept
      reverting to flip/flop limp wristing. My first inclination was that the daughter wasn't really into it but what
      I found with a bit of discussion is that the daughter really wanted to learn because she saw fly fishing
      as an activity that she and her father could share. Obviously she was motivated - just not a "quick"
      learner when it came to fly casting. Another issue was that it was a chilly day and she was feeling the
      cold and as a result wasn't concentrating on the casting. My solution was to do as much as reasonable
      given the weather and then reschedule another lesson in the spring time. The second lesson will, I
      hope, have a double benefit - first reinforce the previous lesson and secondly pick a day when the
      weather is warmer.
     
    - Some people haven't got a clue of how much a wide open back cast impacts their overall cast. During
      the one on one portions of a lesson I may get the student I'm working with to watch some of the other
      casters and together we will observe a variety of loops and how they are affecting the casting. I have
      this idea, rightly or wrongly, that people that are taking a class together can help each other in the
      future. I know a number of instructors are dead set against casting aids (butt of the rod in the cuff of
      a sleeve or one of those little straps that go around the wrist and rod butt) but I find they can sometimes
      be used to reinforce to the student that they are, in fact, breaking their wrist and by keeping a firm
      wrist their casting improves dramatically. Just make sure the casting aid is only used for a very short
      period of time so the student doesn't develop a dependency.
     
    - Being able to see yourself casting can result in an immediate fix. We've discussed a number of ways
      of doing this in the past.
     
    Cheers
     
    Walter
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Walter ...  Your last statement says a lot. 
     
    Mack Martin has pointed out the great value in video taping casting students and then  playing it back to them so they can see what is happening as they cast.  Joan Wulff did the same thing. She uses a mirror for teaching hand/wrist/arm casting movements. Many others have begun to use these techniques, too.
     
    Molly Semenik had a unique experience a couple of years ago as she critiqued her own cast using a reflection in a large picture window of her home !
     
    Rick Whorwood points out the use of layouts to teach what is happening.  One example is his way of having the caster make a back cast and then stop and allow the line to remain on the grass behind.  His defective arm movement may be reflected in a curved or erratic layout.
     
    Divided opinions on the use of the casting "aids" which you mention.......  They can be used as you point out, however ..... to reinforce a point the instructor has made.
     
    Gordy
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
    From Peter Lami:
     
    Gordy,

    I have changed the way I teach “The Stop” at the Master level.  I tell all my Master Candidates that the “Stop” is a sequence of events that starts at the precise moment the fly rod begins to unbend to a split second after RSP when the loop is formed.  Or as Bruce Richards put it, “... tip path prior to and after "loop formation".  I believe this differs with conventional thinking which posits the “Stop” as a singular event, which of course is a myth.

    This may be something only the Glossary Committee can appreciate, but I’ve been arguing with folks about this for years.  I’d like to know your thoughts.  Is the “Stop” an Essential Rule as it applies to the basic overhead cast?

    Cheers!

    Peter Lami
    FFF Master
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Peter,
     
    Essential ?.......  When teaching students? YES.    To scientists ? no.    To Master candidates ? A qualified no.
     
    Paul Arden pointed out that you really can make many satisfactory fishing casts without a true stop.
     
    Our physicists have shown us that it isn't really possible for a human being to achieve a true sudden "brick wall" stop.  They have shown that in the real world of fly casting, the best casters achieve rapid negative acceleration at what we like to call the "stop".
     
    The elite casters in Al Kyte and Gary Moran's classic study had the most sudden "stops".  Their videos showed that even these had some rod deflection as they did that..... so they were not perfect stops in the physics sense of complete cessation of motion.
     
    The Casting Analyzer shows the same thing.
     
    When Steve Rajeff was asked for one secret to his winning championship cast, he said, "STOP THE ROD".  One of the reasons (among many) that he does so well with distance casts using heavy rods is that he has the strength to achieve greater negative acceleration at the end of his stroke to counter the inertia of the moving rod.
     
    Floyd Dean did a demo at a conclave a few ago, where he made casts with a true STOP as his rod cork struck a metal bar at the completion of his cast.  Result was a layout which wasn't pretty, because of the shock waves transmitted to the line and loop and distance suffered.
     
                                                                                   HOWEVER :
     
    I feel strongly that we should teach the stop to our students !!!
     
    The concept of STOP at the end of the stroke gets into students' brains and works just fine.  We are not here to teach them science..... we are here to teach them to cast !
     
    Getting into the detailed physics of negative acceleration would serve only to confuse them as we teach.
     
    When coaching our Master candidates, I'd still emphasize their stops for efficient straight line casting ... though I would have them try to understand the physics behind all this as background information.
     
    Gordy
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Peter also comes in with a prime example of lack of motivation:
     
    Gordy,

    Everybody knows you can’t teach a pig to sing.  If you try, it will annoy the pig.

    Peter

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~