Walter & Group...
From Dan Storaska of leader / line loop connections :-
Gordy,
I have a question for you and the group. I was wondering what type of loop is recommended for the fairly large game saltwater fishing. I am familiar with 3:
1) 'Perfection Loop' as described by John Merwin in his book, 'New American Trout Fishing'
2) Surgeon's Loop
3) Bimini Twist.
I'm pretty sure 3) is the obvious choice for undeniable knot strength, but 'out in the field' would 1 or 2 do a respectable job? Again, I'm considering Large (30# and up) tarpon in particular. I'm also interested in typical leader creation for such quarry.
Thank you in advance,
Dan
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Dan:
We use several different loops for big game fly fishing. * The advantages and disadvantages of each will be briefly noted. These are based on my own observations over the years after using them on tarpon, tuna, billfish and other big game species. Others have formed their own opinions based upon extensive experience **
For many years, I've tested my leader assemblies right after tying them up..... then tested them again whenever I could AFTER FIGHTING A LARGE FISH. I found surprising differences ! One glaring example was that the Bimini twist as customarily tied, was the strongest right after tying .... and became the weakest knot in the system after a long hard battle. That caused me to figure out a variation in tying it which works well.
Loop to loop connections in general for big game leaders offer the advantage of being strong as well as amenable to quick connection / disconnect. Another advangage is that they are a reliable way of joining materials of different composition..... such as Nylon mono to fluorocarbon, where many other knots tend to fail. The fact that they are more bulky than most of the connections used for trout fishing, is of little importance because of the lack of need for soft / gentle presentations when fishing for big game, particularly in the salt.
I've probably left out some satisfactory loop connections favored by others.
One fly fisherman who has had a World of experience and has tested knots and leader assemblies critically over the years is, as you probably know, Lefty Kreh. I'd welcome his comments ! G.
I. For connecting the butt section of the leader to the fly line:
A. End of fly line.
1.) Whipped loop (a la Lefty Kreh)
Advantages: Smooth. -Goes through the tip top and guides, easily. Strong.
Disadvantage: -Takes longer to form, especially if necessary to do it while fishing.
-Requires a tool (fly tying bobbin)
2.) Two nailless nail knots (Snell knots) of 8# to 12# mono (Sometimes called the "Ron Hyde Loop".)
Advantages: - Can be made while wading or in a skiff with materials we all carry.
- Requires no tools other than a clipper.
- Quick and easy to tie once the angler knows the tricks of making simple 10 - 12 turn snell knots.
Disadvantages: - Bulkier than the whipped loop. Tends to catch in the tip top and guides. (For this reason, I try to keep it from getting into the tip top. That can be a problem when fishing with a 14' leader for permit. Last year, I guided Steve Rajeff who hooked and was landing an enormous permit when that knot caught in his tip-top and the class tippet popped as we were trying to boat the critter. ...... Steve was using my rod. He'd have used a different connection !)
3.) Woven slip-on commercially available loop :
Advantages: - Strong (when applied correctly)
- Smooth connection. (Goes through tip top and guides easily.)
Disadvantates: - Not easily applied while fishing.
- Pulls off if not expertly applied.
- When used where there are lots of Great Barracuda, we have been fighting a fish when the barracuda attacked the brightly colored loop and cut it off !!! (This gave me the idea of using it to make a cuda fly..... Works great ! )
B. End of butt section of the leader.
1.) Duncan loop. (My favorite.)
Advantages: - Quick and easy to tie.
- Low profile (goes through tip top and guides well.
- Leader comes straight out of the knot.
Disadvantages: - Not as strong as most other knots. (However, being formed in heavy material, this is of little consequence. I've never had one break when used in this position.)
- Can slip down tight on the fly line loop if not tied correctly. (Never happened in my experience when used at this end and tied correctly with 6 turns and drawn down properly.)
2.) Lefty's non-slip loop.
Advantages: - Strong.
- Won't slip down even under extreme conditions.
- Fairly easy to get through tip top when necessary.
Disadvantages: - Does slip easily if drawn down incorrectly.
- (I have trouble trying to make this loop small enough. when tied in heavy butt section mono. Lefty can make it as small as he wishes. )
3.) Surgeon's loop.
Advantages: - Strong.
- Quick and easy to tie, even with cold hands.
- Won't slip.
Disadvantages: - Bulky. Catches in tip top and guides. Catches weed and algae easily.
- Butt section material doesn't pull cleanly (straight) out of the knot.
4.) Perfection loop.
Advantages: - Strong.
- Doesn't slip.
Disadvantages: - Not easy for many anglers to tie.
- Loop tends to stand out round rather than smoothly flattening out.
- Not easy to control the size of the loop.
II. Loop connection from shock tippet to fly:
1.) Lefty's Non-slip loop. (My favorite, here.)*
Advantages: - Strong.
- Bite (shock) tippet pulls straight out of the knot.
- Will not slip if tied correctly.
- Holds "open" to allow fly to swing well when this is desires.
Disadvantages: - Not so easy (for me) to control the size of the loop.. especially when I want to have a very small loop.
- Becomes a "different knot" which will slip if it isn't drawn down correctly.
2.) Duncan loop.
Advantages: - Quick and easy to tie.
- Bite (shock) tippet pulls straight out of the knot.
- Not bulky.
- Loop will "flatten" to oval configuration when this is desired.
Disadvantages: - Will often pull down as it slips down to the hook eye. (Note that we've found the Duncan loop to pull down more easily the closer to the fly it is used. I've never had it do that up at the fly line connection, sometimes does when used in mid leader, and often does when used at the fly.)
- Not as strong as most other loops. This is a major problem if and when it does slip down to the hook eye. When tied in heavy shock tippet material, this may not matter anyway, but it does matter greatly when shock tippets of lesser diameters are used !
3.) Perfection loop:
Advantages: - Strong.
- Maintains loop shape when this is desired.
- Won't slip.
Disadvantages: - Quite difficult to tie at this end of the leader, because it is not easy to get the fly through the turned and flipped loops as you form this knot.
- Bulky. (Compared with the Duncan loop.)
4.) Surgeon's loop:
Advantages: - Strong.
- Easy to tie.
Disadvantages: - Bulky
- Shock tippet doesn't pull straight out of the knot.
5.) Metal crimped sleeve loop:
Advantages: - Quick and easy to form
- Shock tippet pulls straight out of the sleeve.
- Very strong.
Disadvantages: - Requires special equipment including sleeves and crimp tool.
- Works fine for billfish and some other pelagics. With others, such as tarpon, its use results on fewer strikes. (In my experience.)
III. Loop connections between the butt section of the leader or the proximal tapered section and the class tippet.
A. End of the butt section (or end of tapered section when taper is used).
# ( Any of the above loops can be used with the advangages and disadvantages as stated... with the exception of the metal sleeve loop.)
B. Upper (proximal) end of the class tippet:
1.) Standing loop from a Bimini Twist, Spyder hitch loop, King sling loop or Slim Beauty loop.
Advantgages: - Once the loop is formed in the class tippet, no additional loop is needed.
- Makes a quick and easy connection to the distal loop above.
Disadvantages: - Low shock and tensile strength compared with loops made with the double line out of the Bimini, etc. loops.
2.) Secondary loop made with the double line out of the primary standing loop of the class tippet:
a. Surgeon's loop:
Advantages: - Strong.
- Won't slip.
- Quick and easy to tie.
Disadvantages: - Somewhat bulky ( Not a real problem, though, because of the thin diameter of the class tippet even though double stranded.)
b. # Any of the loop knots described above, except for the sleeve loops. Same advantages and disadvantages, in general.
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# I have purposely not discussed wire bite/shock tippet connections. However, if there is enough interest, I will do so in the future.
* Lefty has taught us that how you tie the knot (loop or other connection knots) can make a huge difference in performance. This is especially true of the number of turns chosen for the diameter of the material and the method of cinching it down ! He has authored several books on knots.
** One of the best books I've found devoted largely to knots and complete leader systems for big game fly fishing is: FLYCASTING SYSTEMS by Bill Nash. (Fifth edition) BNCO Publisher - 1045 Woodbind Way, San Jose, CA 95117 .
Bill devoted many years to the study and testing of big game fly leaders. He and I have had many private communications on big game fly leader assemplies.
This is an inexpensive spiral bound paper back work last published in 2006 just prior to Bill's untimely demise.
You may be able to get it directly from the publisher. Bill's wife sold it and may still be doing so.
Try: billsknots@xxxxxxx for this and his video on the same subject.
Gordy