Casting mechanics / Loop connections

So to further this discussion, what influences the amount of deflection and rate of deceleration of the rod tip after RSP? I have my own ideas, and would like to hear others. (Troy)

After RSP your hand acts like a brake - the external moment is now reversed (like friction on the car tires) and rotation of the rod butt//hand continues in the same direction (the car continues to move forward). During loading and rod unloading the applied moments performed positive work. During counterflex negative work is performed by the hand on the rod because the moment and angular velocity are in opposite directions. As a practical manner most of the rod kinetic energy is removed by negative work by the end of counterflex. What remains can be removed during rebound but it is necessary to continue rotating in the same direction (cast direction). You may want to say the heck with the remaining rod oscillations in favor of tightening the loop by rotating to lift the rod tip during rebound. This motion is not an energy absorbing but perhaps so little rod kinetic energy remains that it doesn't matter.

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Here is some really valuable detailed information on loop connections and knots from Lefty. My brief comments in his text in italics. G.:-

Hi Gordy-- I am swamped in stuff--as usual but you asked me to comment on loops.

Fly-fishermen are faced with loop connections in several ways. Connecting fluorocarbon to nylon, small diameter lines to larger ones, attaching a fly and loops in backing and fly lines.

With fly lines I have never liked the double nail knot that was developed in the Florida Keys back in the late 1960's. Properly tied it is stronger than the fly line. But it can catch in guides unless you build a taper on it after finishing the knot.

Agree. That is one of its biggest problems. For that reason, I usually do taper it. I do that by shavng off 3/8th " of fly line coating and putting a third nail knot of 8 lb. test mono to lash the fly line core to the line. Still not as smooth as the whipped loop, however. G.

The whipped loop is faster, and with practice takes about two minutes. It is a smoother connection and rarely catches in the guides. I used it both at the rear and front for most fly lines through size nine.

Lefty... you showed us the way you do it with the fly tying bobbin. ..... SLICK !!! Rotating that bobbin around takes very little practice, and worth the effort. G.

Both the double nail knot and the whipped loop have two disadvantages. When fighting very strong fish such as offshore species the nylon butt section loop knot can cut through the fly line coating and sometimes cause the loss of a trophy fish. The other disadvantage is when using long leaders--such as when bonefishing. Many times when landing the fish the leader needs to be drawn into the rod guides. The whipped loop or double nail knot will generally flow freely---but the loop knot in the butt section if it enters the snake guides will often snag when the fish attempts to escape causing leader tippet to break.

I have never actually lost a tuna, sail, or marlin by having the mono loop at the upper end of the butt section wear through the fly line loop, though I have noted that it will wear through the fly line coating. For those big pelagics, I use soft 60# mono for the butt sections.

My biggest problem has been the loop knot in that heavy butt section mono catching in the guides, as you point out. G.

The best all-around loop knot is made usually with 50 pound-test hollow braided line. A loop is made in one end and the other end extends down over the fly line line. There are numerous examples on the Internet how to do this. Www.danblanton.com has one of the best examples--click on Getting Looped. This loop will withstand the punishment of tuna and billfish. It has the wonderful capacity of being extremely flexible so it will flow in and out of the rod guides.

HOWEVER--if the leader butt section loop knot is connected to the braided loop and the fly line enters the guides--there is still a problem. My answer is to use a heavy butt section--I like 50 pound for rod 7 through 9 or 10--and I sandpaper about seven or eight inches of the butt end of the leader. I then insert the hollow braided line over this roughened surface. I trap the end on the leader two nail knots with 10 pound test mono (which I coat with Pliobond). I have never had this slip on the butt section. To the other end of the braided line I make the standard braided loop. When you connect the two braided loops (fly line to butt section) you have a super smooth loop-to-loop connection that flows freely in and out of the guides.

This is new info. for me . I'll be sure to try it !!!!! G.

Of course with shorter leaders where the butt section loop knot doesn't enter the guides I like a surgeons loop in the leader butt section.

When connecting class tippets to the butt section I build a Bimini in the class tippet and double it and make a a surgeons' loop. This give me four strands of class tippet to loop to the loop in the butt section.

I do the same thing with the upper end of the Bimini loop to gain the strength of the 4 strands. If I really want to put the extra time in, I'll bend the long loop out of the Bimini around and furl it.... then double the furl around and literally furl the furl. This takes a lot of time, but it does two things: 1.) It allows me to form a tiny loop of no more than 1/4" in diameter. When this is looped to the loop on the end of the butt section, it won't tend to jump over when fighting a wild jumping fish. (Before doing that, I lost 2 billfish when the loops jumped over one another and the butt section fractured ). 2.) The double furl becomes "spring loaded" ... gives some extra stretch to the leader assembly which might be of some value when finishing off a large fish with the fly line already on the reel. Whether this would actually save a class tippet under tension or not I don't really know. G.

My $2,300 line tester that has no opinion and I have tested dozens of loops.

I think a loop knot connecting to the fly should have three requirements. First the loop should be as near or as strong as the line it is tied with. Secondly--you should be able to adjust the loop's size. Third

I think it is important the trimmed tag end of the loop should point toward the fly to prevent the protruding end from snagging weeds, etc. The Non-Slip Loop--or the variation of what some call the Kreh Loop offer all three of these advantages.

I noted Gordy that you said people have trouble adjusting the size of these two loops. I couldn't sell hacksaws in a prison--but my new knot book by Stackpole has drawings and a DVD showing how easy this is to do.

I didn't have a copy ..... ordered one an hour ago. G.

I wish I had more time--we could write a much longer text about loops--but these are just a few thoughts.

All the Best,

Lefty