Learning tools / Style & Substance

Walter & Group...

From Dennis Grant:-

Hi Gordy

 

Traveling around British Columbia for a few months. Catching up on a few hundred emails. Will get into the substance/style discussion as it is one of my favorites at clinics for instructors.

 

Here an acronym from our friend George MacQuarrie.

 

Before you begin the backcast;

 

P.R.O.M.

 

Point the rod at the fly

Remove slack

On top of the water

Moving

 

All the best, Dennis

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Dennis,

 

I was hoping you would take the bait !!!

 

A couple of years ago when we gave presentations at the Continued Ed. course in Marlboro, you came up with an entirely different way of looking at the concept of STYLE and SUBSTANCE.  You challenged us to try to decide on some fly casting issues most of us had never considered.

 

This would be a great one for the Group.

 

Gordy

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From Soon Lee :

Gordy,

 

I have always felt that "stop" and "180* principle" warrant recognition as essentials. For several years I have been listing the essentials thus (roughly following the cast sequence):

 

S - Slack, avoidance of

P - Power, proper application of

S - Stop, "turn to stone"

P - Pause, or drift

S - Stroke length to suit line carry

P - Position BC and FC @ 180* (to avoid open and closed loops, and hooking)

S - Straight line path of rod tip.

 

Just to add to your collection of mnemonics....

 

Soon.

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Soon:   I took the liberty of highlighting in your message.  You have added one additional dimension to our disussion of essentials.  Thanks.

 

Gordy

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More on Style & Substance from Ally Gowans :-

 

Hi Gordy,

 

Re pause time you wrote:

When might we gain advantage by deviating from this one?

1. When performing a snap cast. 

Not true (hope that we are talking about the same move)! However your statement does acknowledge that the Snap movement is a relative of the straight line (overhead etc) casts, only here the rod tip is made to form loop differently so the tip scribes the desired loop size, shape and direction and then there is a stop; end of cast. After the stop you can of course produce different mends (line layouts) just like you can after any cast. In the instance of a snap type cast though the mend tends to be the purpose and the following cast is usually a roll cast. The snap can also be used to lift (aerialise) line and in this case the pause would be just sufficient to organise the line in the air and proceed with a forward cast. Sometimes used by dry fly fishers with a short line. Incidentally the snap done quickly is a great way of knocking the water out of a fly!

 

Harping back to style. It seems that some of the group think of style as changing cast type to suit situations. I define differences of style as achieving identical line movement by different body movement. Each of us has a habitual natural and practiced style and many can change styles for instance to imitate another person and illustrate different ways of doing the same thing. That’s what I think style is. This reminds me of another pearl that is worth mentioning at the start of a class and probably not again! One definition of stupidity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results! How often do we see that!

 

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

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From Lewis Hinks:



Hi Gordy,

 

    Thanks. I am always comforted when you and I are on the same wavelength.

 

    I agree wholeheartedly with your statement: One can use different styles of casting for each family of casts, as I see it.

 

    Ally Gowans, Simon Gawesworth and Scott MacKenzie all have different styles of spey casting, but no one would say that any of them are not effective at what they do.

 

    One simple way that I look at style is that it helps me, when I go to a river, to identify my friends who are already fishing, by watching them cast. I can often tell who is fishing at a distance, not by how they look, but by how they cast.

 

Cheers,

Lewis

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From Craig Buckbee.  This is a long message, but worth reading.  Note my comments insterted in his text in bold blue italics.

 

Gordy

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Gordy,

this is a long letter, not a master's answer by any stretch. cull out what, if any, you would like...

you asked a while ago about experiences we have had with teaching our other hand to cast, if we found ourselves casting in a different style.

well yes ... and no. let me explain:

a number of years ago i was told by a prominent FFF board member that i would need to, or shall we say 'be better served by' learning to cast in a vertical manner if i wanted to become an instructor... that students can't see side-arm loops as easily as vertically made loops (which we all know as not true, as exemplified in our soooo often teaching side-arm loops hovering parallel over the lawn!! and hey, who wants a stiff neck looking for loops in the sky?!!) as Al Buhr would say, i am a side-winder.  a couple years later and i was at the Wulff instructors school... being 'firmly' taught the ol'hatchet chop. Joan would run to me from across the field yelling, "craig you're not stopping the rod!!!". i couldn't argue with her for several reasons: one, the obvious, she was Joan Wulff,  and two, i didn't know enough at the time to counter her with  "i am indeed stopping the rod or i would not  be making these loops on my back cast." i was simply running out of arm. my stops were occur
ring way out back, not up by my head as she wanted to see.

so i've learned too compromise,  neither vertical or side-arm.

 

Craig ....  You were not doing anything "wrong" .  As you know, there are at least 3 ways of increasing stroke length and rod arc for the forward cast after or during your back cast.  I see these as distinct casting styles.

 

1.) Drifting back in the direction of the unrolling loop following a brief stop on the back cast. (Joan Wulff)

 

2.) Layback.  Tilting the rod way back with the rod tip pointing at the back cast unrolling loop after a very brief stop (Gary and Jason Borger.)

 

3.) "Lefty's stab".  This is one name I use for the way Lefty and Ed Jaworowki do it.  Simply put, the idea is to make the stop at the end of rod tip travel on the back cast.  Don't stop and then do anything, just bring the rod tip way back in the first place.  When fishing the flats, I usually do it this way.  It's simple, direct, and a much better way of doing it if you have a wind from behind than stopping and then drifting back !  Trick is to bring it back and up a bit .... NOT back and down.

 

Many uninformed fly casting instructors criticize a student for "bringing the rod back too far."  That is just plain wrong most of the time.  Of course, criticism is justified if the student brings it back and down for reasons we all know.

I see that most students don't bring the rod back far enough for the length of line carried as they go for more distance.

G.

two summers ago i decided to give my right arm a rest when practicing and try some my left. and in doing so i thought, "what the hell, might as well teach it in the vertical style." so that's what i've been doing. though now as i have become more proficient, double-hauling etc.. i find myself slipping comfortably into a style much the same as my dominant arm's. i would like to add here a  thankyou to the board of governors for giving my other arm yet another reason for learning to cast.

Well, you did that because you simply found that to be a more efficient and ergonomic way to cast.  Something to be learned by that.     G.

one interesting point about vertical 'vs' sidearm styles: when casting off shoulder (rod tip tilted over head), it is the vertical style that comes out to play. it is the the drop of the elbow, leading with it , that is the translation (tensioning the system). Floyd Franke casts in this very distinct, strong, highly accurate style. it is from watching him cast that i have learned to perform off shoulder tasks.

When casting for accuracy off your "other" shoulder when distance isn't an issue, I agree.  All one has to do, is to tilt the casting elbow a bit to the side and place with the rod tip very slightly off the other shoulder.  When distance is needed, however, you need a more efficient way of casting with greater stroke length and rod arc.  My way of doing that is to crouch somewhat and use an almost horizontal rod plane casting with the butt section of my rod directly over my head.

(Joe Shedlock tells students to "comb your hair with your rod handle")

Some fine casters do it differently.  One example is the young, strong, supple fellow who can get away with making the back cast and bending his body way back to increase stroke length.  I can't do that.  Joan Wulff amazes me by the way she can do it !      G.

with sidearm, the elbow leaves the hip and then comes back in. with the vertical, the elbow lifts up away from the hip and then comes back down. so what we are seeing is the elbow, in both styles,  LEAVING the torso on the back cast and then coming back in the forward cast.

A resounding YES.  Must remember to keep that elbow on the "shelf", however !     G.

off to the fly tying symposium in somerset NJ,
craig