Lefty's book - Tailing loops

This is great stuff! In addition to the other thought-provoking material, I think you may have solved the inconsistency in my S cast. I need to move my arm instead of just my wrist (rod tip) to keep from adding load and straightening my curves. Now why didn’t I think of that?

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For those of you who are in to deep thinking, "outside the box" on flycasting problems, study Gary Eaton's letter followed by my comments in his text in bold blue italics.

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I have to say that there are enough glaring false statements in Lefty's book as to render it a liability to anyone studying for an FFF test without a list of pages to to skip, ignore, and unlearn.(I would tear them out before loaning it to a student).

Most glaring is the inauspicious mis-statement that - all tailing loops are caused by raising the elbow on the back cast and lowering the elbow on the forward cast.

Over the years, many of us took issue with Lefty's statements about tailing loops. Then some of us began to look at his descriptions with an open mind in an attempt to dovetail what he taught with the things we were teaching. In doint this, I spent time with Lefty over our differences and similarities. (I remember well one morning when Jim Valle, Lefty and I were going over this at breakfast in a diner in New Jersey while drawing diagrams on paper napkins.) We did, indeed, start to understand one another.

As I re read his chapter on tailing loops, I failed to find a statement that, "all tailing loops are caused by raising the elbow on the back cast and lowering the elbow on lthe forward cast." On page 409, I do call attention to his statement, "Beginning with your hand high and dropping it at an angle during the forward cast is the most common reason for a tailint loop." Also, on p. 404, "The most common cause of a tailing loop is elevating the elbow on the backcast and lowering it on the forward cast."

While I do not find this as the most common cause in my teachings and observations, I do agree that this is one "cause" of the problem with casters who cast in the horizontal rod plane with a low-elbow style. Of course, it cannot be true of casters who use the elbow-forward vertical casting plane style of Joan Wulff and many others, especially trout fishermen.

Of the three main actions which most of us teach as "causes" of tailing loops: 1.) Creep leading to too short a stroke, rod arc, and tip travel for the amount of line carried, 2.) Too short a stroke and rod arc for the length of the cast (without creep) and 3.) Misapplication of power despite lack of creep and/or incorrect stroke length and rod arc for the amount of line carried, the one most common in my experience among salty fly rodders here in the Florida Keys, is number 3.) . This was NOT what Tom White had found after teaching fly casting for many years in fresh water venues. He was convinced that CREEP was the most common problem.

As we look for common denominators which some might call "causes", we see a concave path of the rod tip so frequently that it did look like the "without-which-not" of the tail. For a while.

Then we looked at the work done by Mac Brown in his book, CASTING ANGLES, and we are presented with numerous depictions called "box diagrams", each representing a way of making a tailing loop which has nothing to do with a concave rod tip path ! There, the common denominator, is a casting trajectory (line plane) of less than 180 degrees between the back cast and the forward cast. (Even there, there must be very little if any change in rod plane between these casts for a tail to occur.)

Other methods of making a tail include any maneuver which gets the fly leg of the loop into the path of the rod leg. This includes shoving the rod tip up into the path of the oncoming line. It, also, includes shoving the rod forward with no completion of rod arc as depicted in Ed Jaworoski's book, THE CAST, p. 204.

The very first question I was asked on my MCCI exam years ago, was this: "What happens if you have an absolutely perfect straight line path of the rod tip throughout the cast?" Answer: Either a collision betwen the line and the rod tip or a tailing loop. G.

Most of us have studied the material or worked with Al Kyte, Jason Borger, and Bruce Richards (etc.) to realize that Lefty has no capacity to support this premise over rod tip path concavity as the tailing loop's root cause; and the exquisite value, indeed necessity, of change in elbow elevation to make a proper overhead cast in the vertical plane.

If we use Bruce Richards' six step method, then Lefty's elbow "cause" could be seen as 1.) the body (arm) movement which made the caster use inapproprate power, which, 2.) Made the rod tip deflect down then up (concave rod tip path) which, 3.) Caused the fly leg of the loop to collide or cross over the rod leg ....... a TAIL. Steps 4.) through 6.) reversing the process. G.

Lefty further obfuscates the reality of this erred thinking by presenting off-vertical casts from pure side-view - a misrepresentation of images, at the very least, as photographic support. Were one to change the camera angle top be 90 degrees to the actual plane of the moving rod - I believe the resulting images would more support tip concave path or even absolutely refute Lefty's proposed explanation for tailing loops.

I'm glad you came up with this one ! Tom White and I felt the same way about this... SO we did just that. I made the casts using Lefty's style (it happens to be my own default style) while Tom stood on the deck of my stilt home on Big Pine Key with a high speed video camera. We could easily adust the angle of view to the casting plane by having me move nearer or closer to the house. G.

EXACTLY AS YOU FIGURED, WE FOUND THAT WHILE MOVING THE ELBOW OFF-THE-SHELF AS LEFTY DESCRIBED USING HIS CASTING STYLE, THAT WHEN TAILS OCCURRED, THERE WAS, INDEED, A CONCAVE ROD TIP PATH !!!! While I can't prove it, I had the feeling that this was because I tended to use a misapplication of power when doing this. We couldn't see this by looking or photographing from the side. G.

Previously in this forum, we reached a consensus that Lefty's supposed "cure" for tailing loops of ending with the thumb pointing horizontal- is a merely a band aid that covers up a flaw and cures nothing. In the name of consistency, it would seem that Lefty should have presented a "cure" that involved restricting elbow elevation change as the definitive remedy for tailing loops. In this he failed.

Lefty's style of teaching is to often oversimplify to get the point across to a student. We may or may not agree with that. This is in line with that concept. Another example of his doing that is to tell a student who can't make tight loops, "Try to throw your line right at your rod tip". More often than not, a nice tight loop forms to delight the caster. Has the caster learned any casting mechanics or physics ? Certainly not ...... but he can now make a tight loop. Is it the "right way to teach" ? some would say no. Does it work ? Not always; but then..... not all teaching methods work all the time.

I can only imaging the number of times a guide has saved is client's day by telling the "tailer", "Make your stroke longer" or "Press down with your thumb at the end of your cast". A real casting lesson ? No. Did it solve the problem of the moment ? Probably. G.

It is quite easy to engage Bruce's "delayed rotation" concept to defend against tails. It also appears that Lefty changes rod planes from forward to back casts to create the optical illusion of viable casts absent elbow elevation.

Illusion ? Perhaps. As I have observed hundreds of casters from in front and in back, I have learned that most of us do change rod planes to some extent as we cast. Exceptions exist. One example is the elite tournament distance caster who used a vertical casting plane. I couldn't detect any change when Steve Rajeff did that. Then I noted him departing from that when he fished with me. G.

I am glad I familiarized myself with the book. I am certain that I will have to disprove Lefty's casting mechanics, on these issues, to students in the upcoming year. Too bad the these "fatal flaws" will keep me from recommending the book. The considerable stuff he has "right" are easily obtained from other sources without the incredible errors of mechanics noted. There are some other, less offensive inconsistencies like contradictions demonstrated in comparing photos from one section to the other and Lefty "no-no's" appearing in photos depicting "proper" methods. I was disappointed.

Well...... When your students tell you what they learned from Lefty's book, you could expand their horizons by pointing out the differences in ways of looking at fly casting so they have better in depth understanding as they continue their education after they have left your tuition. This way, they'll be less confused as they go on to be confronted with other instructors and texts with differing explanations.

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