Spey / Knots / CREEP

Walter & Group...

From Bill Toone....

Gordy it may be splitting hairs but shouldn’t it be a “significant change of direction” when defining a spey cast?  Although limited we all know you can do a change of direction with just a roll cast.  Probably up to roughly a max of 30 degree change in direction.

A dramatic (live line) aerialized roll type cast with a significant change of direction would be my definition.

 

Regards,

Bill Toone

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Bill.  Let's look at it this way:   Suppose you make what by any other description is a perfect single Spey cast ..... dynamic, continuous tension, perfect anchor placement, perfect alignment between you, the D-loop and your target, going through all the elements of the Spey cast ...... and then you elect and execute it with a 10 degree change of direction.

Did you not make a single Spey cast ?

My take is that you did.

Dennis Grant, I think, made the point that definitions may be useful, but descriptions of the elements of a cast understandable to the student are far more important when teaching.

Gordy

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 Knot sources from Tony Loader:-

Hi Gordy,

 

Further to Jerry's question on knot websites, I have found this one useful http://www.animatedknots.com/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com .

 

Others are:

 

http://www.orvis.com/orvis_assets/files/index.html

 

http://www.saltwaterexperience.com/Knot_Library.htm  The "X knot" and the "J knot" look interesting. Do you use either?

 

 

 

The knot in the green line is described by local knot guru, Geoff Wilson, in his "Encyclopedia of Fishing Knots and Rigs" (ISBN 186513040-0) as Duncan's Loop. His accompanying text commences "Sometimes confused with the Uni Knot which looks similar but is not the same, Duncan's Loop provides a simple fixed loop attachment for fly to tippet or hook to leader. Peter Hayes of "Guided Fishing" provided the demonstration on which these drawings are based."  (Coincidentally Peter is a MCCI.)

 

In that same book he describes the knot in the blue line as a Uni Knot.

 

I have attempted to contact Geoff Wilson through his local publisher. If I learn anything more from him I will let you know.

 

Regards,

Tony.

 

 

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Tony .....   Good work !   Thanks.

 

I have used neither.

 

I'm ignorant as to Duncan's original description ..... or as to just who Duncan is (??????)

 

Gordy

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From Kathleen Wagner on Knots:

 

Hey Gordy!

 

Knots are a great subject.  My favorite knot is the uni-knot.  For years I have used the uni-knot with two loops through the eye, this is actually called the eye-crosser, not the uni-knot, but one of the stongest knots one can use.  It is also one of the most versatile, being used from an arbor knot, to a leader or backing connection knot, tying two lines together (not the best for large diameter lines), and tying on flies.

 

Anyway a great resource some in the group may have seen is Knot Wars on the North American Fisherman television program where they test different knots for strength.

Check it out:

 

http://www.fishingclub.com/ExtraContent/ExtraContentDetail.aspx?id=132344

 

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Kat .....   Do you place the line through the eye of the hook twice ?          Gordy

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From Laurence Baggett:

 

Gordy: The uniknot should be stronger than a Duncan loop since the loop in a Duncan is made in the main line before the tag passes through the eye (and thus should stress sooner) whereas the uniknot loop is made after passing through the eye and the loop is in the tag, not the main line. Gordon thinks it is stronger because the diameter of the hook is larger than the line, thus the line in a Duncan first tightens on itself (smaller diameter) thus will break sooner.
 

G.Laurence Baggett, Esq.
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From Rene Hesse on CREEP:

 

Gordy,

Tony's answers were well done and researched.  Not much could be added to his statement.

The only thing that by experience I could say would be a reason to Creep would be this;

 

With a strong wind from behind and the need to perform an over head cast, we don't have time

to allow the 'line to straighten' behind us and we have to start the rod forward to create the tension.

 

Not a great choice of casts and used for short distances, but still a cast with creep.

'It's a creepy looking cast'

 

Rene
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Rene...   You are right.  Of course, a better way of handling this would be to carry less line into the back cast with a tight loop and high loop speed .... then shoot more on the forward cast with the wind assisting.

I have caught myself using the cast of your description when I've goofed and place more line into the wind on the back cast than I should have.  To prevent a tail, dip the tip of your rod down farther after the stop..... or change rod planes on your forward cast.

Gordy

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