Walter & Group.........
Question from Lou Bruno:
Gordy,
I am
enjoying this topic very much. I have a question, does a soft leader material
necessarily mean it is more flexible, and does a harder leader material
necessarily mean it is less flexible?
Thanks
Lou
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Lou... Good question. All the soft materials I've worked with are also quite flexible whereas the hard materials have always been stiffer.
Furling can make any leader more flexible .... but if you double it and furl the furl, it becomes stiffer.
Has anyone come up with a soft material which is stiff .... and/or a hard material which is flexible ? I frankly don't know.
Gordy
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Messages sent to me as forwarded from Troy Miller and Bruce Richards, on leaders (Continued from prior messages ):
(I've highlighted portions of the messages which I think are really important)
Another excellent answer, Bruce. Thanks.
A couple more points I believe. As you say below, the mass carries the
energy. Therefore, the mass profile of the flyline and leader will
dominate the energy flow characteristics of the system. I think that
stiffness does play a contributing role in energy loss.
I furl a lot of my own leaders. I've drilled peg holes all over my board,
until it looks like swiss cheese. Looking for the perfect taper for an
application is really a lot of fun. One thing that you learn when you cast
furled leaders, they have NO stiffness. ONLY mass. You can literally cast
just the leader off the tip of the rod (or from your hand). Extruded or
knotted mono leaders have stiffness/memory issues and can't easily be cast
by themselves. So, I believe that both mass and stiffness contribute to
the unrolling characteristics of a line/leader system. As you said, to
engineer out the "kick" from the flyline turnover, you have to closely
balance the masses of the flyline tip and the leader butt. If I use the
right number of thread turns in my furl, I can make the transition from
flyline to leader almost seamless.
What is your opinion of the welded loops that are being used on flylines
today? Personally I cut them off lighter line weights (5 weight and below)
because they feel clunky when casting (interrupt the smooth energy
transition). On heavier line weights (8 and up), I don't mind them too
much, since I would be using a whipped loop in the end of my flyline
anyway, handshaked to a heavy perfection in the leader butt. The
in-between weights (6 and 7), I may go either way, loop or nail.
Regards -- TAM
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Bruce's answers :-
I agree with you Troy, too much stiffness in a leader will result in more
energy loss actually hindering delivery rather than helping. I can't say
that I've actually seen a leader so stiff that happened though, but the
theory is good.
I have not been a fan of available welded loops for a long time. That's one
of the reasons we were the last to add them to our lines. My biggest
complaint was the same as yours, too big and heavy, causing line kick on
turnover. We engineered our loops to have the minimum size that would still
pass a perfection loop knot, and minimized weld length also, to reduce
weight. I can honestly say that I now use loops even on my light lines,
they are truly barely noticeable, especially if the leader butt is correct.
I fully expected to be cutting them off my lines, but I don't...
Bruce
Scientific Anglers/3M
4100 James Savage Rd.
Midland, MI 48642 USA
Tel: 989-496-1113
Fax: 989-496-3374
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COMMENTS:
1.) I have found nylon mono butt sections which impede the layout. These include the very hard/stiff Mason leader material which we tried a few years ago. With the smaller diameter/lower pound test it wasn't as much of a problem.... but when we went to 50# and 60# test, it made a huge difference.
2.) On welded loops for fly lines: I have tried the welded loop lines marketed by Airflo. In the larger wts., (#8 or higher) they turn over just fine.
My own, "Ron Hyde" loops and the Lefty Kreh whipped loops when made small on lines of the same wt. work just fine. Size #7 is, "iffy". On lines #6 or smaller, there is a bit of hesitation almost like a tiny, "kick". In any event, on those lighter systems I prefer either a nail knot connection or a needle knot so the splashdown is more gentle. This is essentially what I see Troy does.
It is the SIZE of the loop which makes the most difference. I like it to be just big enough to allow a loop-to-loop connection with the butt section.
Gordy
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