Al Kyte's book / Questions / Testing techniques

Al Kyte's new book, The Orvis Guide to Better Fly Casting, A Problem-Solving Approach could easily be retitled to ....Insights for Better Fly Casting Instruction. Al shares unique insights about casting and teaching that go well beyond his previous articles on distance and style. Every time Al speaks or writes about casting and teaching I learn something new.

You might consider bringing Al's book up for discussion by the Masters Study Group...in my view that would be a very productive exercise for all master candidates.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Chuck Easterling:

Gordy,

I agree--there are so many ideas about teaching in Al's new book that it is, in my humble opinion, a must read for instructors.

Chuck

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks, Dusty & Chuck .

Several of our other CBOG's have contacted me about this book as a teaching gold nugget ! A couple of years ago, Chuck Easterling sent me copies of many great casting articles written by Al Kyte. I use them regularly as reference material. Al is a deep thinker and writes clearly. It is amazing how insightful and accurate he was on casting physics with his articles written a long time before we had fancy electronic and computerized stuff along with super high speed video techniques to study casting mechanics.

Let me suggest that as many of you as possible beg, borrow, steal or purchase a copy of this book. Once I get the message that most of you have it and have read it, we'll have some sessions on it.

I looked through it as the only copy our fly shop had ....... ordered a copy, yesterday.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some of the species specific material is a little too focused for those of us who live out in the big bad world and are not likely to encounter a redfish.

I think strikes on big surface flies for all the species I've encountered (good to see you mentioning one of my favourites - saratoga) have a common theme - wait until you feel the weight of the fish or at least until you see the line or leader go under. So often they miss the fly or the fly is inhaled with a lot of air and water and if we don't wait for the weight we rip it out of their mouths. I've often had surface flies taken, felt no weight tightened on the fly which has moved it and its been re-taken underwater as a subsurface fly. There are many different styles of take on a surface fly that depend on the species - right through to having them slide onto a lily pad to eat the fly I've seen saratoga sip a dahlberg like a trout eating a spent spinner. The implosion feeders like barramundi suck in an awful lot of air when they eat off the top and its very easy to react to this take (in fright sometimes) but in truth you still need to wait. GT's seem to inhale a fly but again its bets to delay the strike until they're going away from you, very often the bow wave they push up moves the fly away from their mouth - one of the reasons I don't like using popping flies for billfish. The delayed strike is a great all round tactic for all the surface action I've experienced on a wide range of species. Just keep the rod pointing right down the line and tighten to feel the weight.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peter..... Too focused ? ....... YES. However, there are some general principles to learn, here. Your term, "common theme" states it well. Brings to mind some important considerations for us as examiners.

Just as we have casting STYLES and teaching styles, we have testing techniques and styles.

Turning this around (as Tom White used to do) and making it a generic question for a candidate, we might ask how to strike a, "WHATZIT FISH" which attacks a fly like a bulldog and has a hard, dense mouth. A well informed candidate will answer that well even if he's never seen or heard of a redfish...... or a GT or Mullaway, for that matter.

One might proffer questions, for example, on the basic principles behind and the reasons for using a delayed strike for a number of species ...... not just GT's, billfish, taiman, saratoga or tarpon.

In line with this, we might inquire as to the reasons behind, "bowing" (momentarily taking pressure off) any fish which leaps, with the advantages and disadvantages of doing this. Tarpon being only one example.

If I'm examining a candidate whom I know to be an accomplished salt water flats fisherman, I'll specify the species .... tarpon. I might avoid that if examining a candidate who does 90% trout fishing.

By the same token, if I'm examining the dyed in the wool salt water flats fisherman, I'll try to be more generic with my questions on trout riseforms, stream insect cycles, specific dry fly designs, stream hydrology, etc.

If my candidate does a high percentage of his/her fishing for Atlantic Salmon, I'll slant my questions in that direction before going to less familiar subjects.

By doing this, I feel I'm being as fair as possible. Concentrating on general principles of casting and fishing which I know to be familiar territory helps relax my candidate. I think that is very important ! (Tom White taught us a lot about how to relax a candidate being tested ...... he was a true expert at that. He felt that by doing this the examiner could bring out the best.)

One ulterior motive is that I'll usually learn something from the candidate I'm testing.

All our CBOG's are on the same page with these principles :

1. WE WANT THE CANDIDATE TO PASS.

2. We'll be as fair as possible.

3. We won't lower what we consider to be high standards.

One reason for my going into testing theory and methods is that once our candidates become Masters, they will often be members of MCCI testing teams. The better examiners they become, the better our certification program. They must remain well informed with respect to newly acquired teaching, casting and fishing information through continued education. As those of you who have attended the CBOG meeting as CCI and MCCI guests know, this is an important and timely issue.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Question from Lou Bruno:

Gordy,

How do you define a curve cast, and a hook cast? When performing the requirement for a curve cast for the MCCI test what do you look for? Do we know where the conclave will be held in 2009?

Regards

Lou

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lou... I see the CURVE CAST and the HOOK CAST as members of the same family. These casts direct the fly either to the left or to the right resulting in a curved layout. (Of course, there are also upward an downward vertical curves, as well.)

I look at the HOOK CAST as nothing more than a curve cast with an exaggerated angular layout. I perform it by making a standard curve cast with high loop speed and a crisp stop so that the rod tip returns quickly in the direction opposite that of the fly during the enhanced rebound following counterflex.

On the MCCI exam, curves may be accelerated (powered) or, "decelerated" (underpowered). Two methods of making curves have been required. This despite the fact that there are many ways of doing it. We'll get into exam requirements in more detail after the new exam comes out. (soon). In general, we look for a distinct curved layout. I doubt that a true 90 degree hook cast will ever be required.

To quote Gary Borger: " There are only two ways to cast; straight and curved."

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Liam Duffy adds to his prior comments on teaching yourself to cast with the, "off hand" :-

Hi Gordy,
In reply to your question about double hauling (when casting ... G.) with the non-dominant hand, here's how I "conquered" it. It may not work for everyone but it worked for me. Best to start on grass lawn or ballpark.

Make a forward cast with the non-dominant hand and allow the line to lie to fall on the grass. If its straight, drop the rod to the horizontal (.IE. waist high) take a good look at it while you plan your next move! now make a back cast (keeping the rod horizontal) and with the dominant hand apply a small (6-9 inches) using mainly wrist movement, concentrate on "feeding back"(bringing the hands together) after the haul and allow the line to land on the grass. Now, here's what looks like the "daft bit" place the tip of the rod on the ground directly below where you stopped on the back cast, keeping the tip in the same spot walk a half circle so that the line is now in the "forward cast" position (I.E. BEHIND YOU)and make another back cast repeating the "mini-haul" Repeat untill you "have it off pat". Okay, now we have the back cast now repeat the exercise in reverse(with the line behind you ready for the forward cast NOW for the tricky bit!! in the backcast the hands are moving in opposite directions (opening and closing as in a handclap) However in the forward cast both hands are moving in the same basic direction during the haul and coming together only after the "feed back" this is the hardest part to "conquer" tHE REASON i HAVE SAID TO HAVE THE BACK CAST "OFF PAT" IS THAT YOU CAN NOW CONCENTRATE IN THE FORWARD CAST MOVEMENTS. Repeat just the forward cast movements(dropping the rod tip and walking the half circle again and practice the forward casting movements with the haul. When you get this "operating nicely" as we say in Ireland. start to combine the two exercises shortening the "gap" between each one (with the rod horizontal you can watch both back and forward casts) Now we're cookin! so we now have a haul on the forward and back cast. Next step, alter the angle of the rod up slightly from the horizontal and work at this slowly moving the rod towards the vertical (if it is going wrong drop the rod tip down to the position where you found it was working fine and work up in SMALL increments making sure each position is working OK) We are now at the position of making small double hauls at the (near) vertical casting position. THE PROBLEM IS NOW SOLVED!! get this into your mind and now we can work on lengthening the haul as we did when learning double hauling with the dominant hand. This part is easy as we now KNOW we can double haul (when casting.... G.) with the non-dominant hand
Hope this helps,

Liam Duffy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gordy,
I meant to add to previous message 1. Break the cast down to (a) the back cast and learn it (b) the forward cast and learn it and (c) when you have both combine them in sequence with the rod horizontal. When you can do this, you can double haul with the non-dominant hand anything else is just a question of rod position and haul length.
Liam Duffy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Liam .... I really like this technique ! To, "rod position" and "haul length" allow me to add, TIMING. Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gordy,

Just a quick note on line color; I didn't come up with the idea, but when I saw it I really liked it. Try taking a clear line and dying it chartreuse or orange. This line will literaly "glow" if there is any light behind it at all.

John Tarr

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John.... I've never seen that, but stand to learn. Will common dyes like, "RIT" do it ??? Might work well for some evening sessions we've held or for lighted night time casting instruction video's. I've heard of, "glow in the dark" lines and "zebra" lines with black and white intervals for video teaching and evaluation casts. (The, "zebra" lines were useful in detemining loop speeds in relation to fly leg and rod leg speeds.)

I have learned from bitter experience that one must be careful with dyes and dye techniques so as not to ruin an expensive fly line. The use of heat as recommended on some dye packages can be especially damaging. Best to first try out the dye and technique on trimmed pieces of fly line, first.

Might be a good topic for future discussion.

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~