Stroke length / Casting arc / Line carried

Walter & Group.......

From Paul Arden (Our Sexyloops author)  :-

"THE CORRECT LENGTH OF STROKE FOR THE AMOUNT OF LINE CARRIED"

 

Stroke Length is irrelevant when it comes to tailing loops. Casting Arc is the correct term!

Casting Arc is independent of Stroke Length.

 

Cheers,

Paul

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Paul ...   As I see it, you are technically correct.  We have been using the term, "stroke length" very loosely.  If we define, "stroke" as the path taken by the hand, and "stroke length" as the distance traveled by the hand, then it is of very little importance compared to the contribution to, "TIP TRAVEL" provided by the Casting Arc.  In the final analysis, I see, "TIP TRAVEL" as of overriding importance with respect to acceleration, line speed, the amount and weight of line carried, and the casting distance.

While STROKE LENGTH and CASTING ARC can be seen as independant variables, they both go to making up TIP TRAVEL, for most casts.  (This despite the fact that one can make a cast with only a casting arc and no stroke (linear hand path)  at all.)

Discussions of this sort lead to the reason we on the Glossary Committee have been working and thinking hard with more than 2 years of deliberations to come up with our definitions.  We are a long way from completion of this task.

Gordy

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An out of context point on the use of a locked wrist by Al Crise:

 with a Wrist lock or band or shirtsleeve or just holding the rod butt Tight to the arm. This just makes the forearm part of the rod. The rotation is now at a point below the wrist as in the Elbow or even the shoulder will be the rotation point.

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Al...   I quoted you (above) out of context to make a related point.

Steve Rajeff showed me a style of making a powerful back cast into a very strong wind by locking the butt of the fly rod so tight to the forearm that it makes a real dent in the muscles.

At the time, he didn't know that this has been the way I'd been doing it with heavy tarpon tackle for years. ( I was foolish enough at one point to think I'd come up with it in the first place.)

While the wrist is locked allowing no flexion, extension or abduction (radial deviation ... in the direction of the thumb), there IS rotation of the forearm and the shoulder.

Gordy

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From Jerry Puckett (on the effects of overhang)

Gordy and Kirk:

 

Simple answer:

 

1- A headwind, due to drag, holds the possiblity of introducing slack in the over hang, hence inconsistent turn over of energy transfer.

 

2- A tailwind will carry the line keeping helping constant tension thus helping prevent slack, hence, less chance of breakdown in energy transfer.

 

3- Timing is the key, regardless of the wind, if slack is not a factor in the line, energy transfer, if the essentials are in balance during the cast, overhang should not be a major factor with a weight forward line.  I will need to give some thought to double taper.  The sinking line, due to same weight on a thinner line, results in less effect by the wind on a headwind or tailwind.  We will discuss the effect of headwinds and tailwinds on a hangover later!  Just think downwind for now!

 

Best I can do for now!

 

Jerry

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Jerry .....

 

Let's try to simplify it even more for your exam, "short answer" :-

 

1.  Wind in the direction of the cast helps prevent slack in the running line.

 

2.  Wind in the direction opposite that of the cast tends to introduce slack in the running line.

 

3.  Timing and tracking are important. 

 

Gordy

 

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From Al Crise:

 

Howdy Gordy

 This from Lee Davison CND Rods Speyunderground on Ron Thomas' Questions on the relationship betwen Spey rod length and the length of the line head.

ol AL .... 

 

Hi Y’all,

The answer is definitely yes.  Nobuo designed the lines based upon that relationship.  As you lengthen a rod you are doing three things: lengthening the relative casting arc (angle being constant); increasing the height of the D loop; and significantly increasing line speed.  All these factors play as you indicated in your note, casting a long belly with a short rod is more work, because you have to increase casting tempo, increase the arc angle, and increase tip speed to overcome a shorter casting arc (distance not angle).  We all know the problems/faults that typically occur trying to cast with a too short of an arc (tailing, line shock, etc.).

 

One important note to impart based on my learning experience:  The elevation of your rod tip is a very important factor to control when you get into the long belly lines.  That is why you see the tournament casters always cast directly overhead for max distance.  They are using their body to increase the lever arm length, to increase height, arc, and therefore line speed.

 

Rod stiffness does play a roll based on the discussion above, but the factors of action on Spey design are pretty complex.  Designing a rod that can load and unload at an accelerated rate is the key. 

 

Hope this confirms your perspectives.  Let me know if I have missed anything you believe plays a critical roll.

 

 The Spey Underground

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