Walter & Group.........
ANSWER TO QUESTION ON THE END POINT FOR THE HAUL:
I've gotten many answers. Most chose a.) (Just prior to the hand stop).
The correct answer is c.) (After the stop at RSP (Rod Straight Position))
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I sent Tim Rajeff some of our material from the recent messages on fly rod power, and received this informative answer: -
Gordy,
Great to hear from you. There are several things in your e mails that seem to be contradictory. I do many equipment classes and presentations every year and the most commonly confused aspects of a rod are its power and its action.
A rods power can be simply expressed as “a rods stiffness” or “its ability to lift a given load”. The rod’s stiffness is independent of the material it is constructed of. You can have a stiff fiberglass rod or a soft high modulus graphite rod. So I would be cautious if a person uses the term modules in a sentence that describes rod stiffness. Modules is simply a term that describes a fibers ability to resist bending. In simple terms high modules fibers are stiffer than low modules fibers. During the flexing of a rod the fibers on the “top” of the rod are being stretched and the fibers on the “bottom” of the rod are being compressed. The farther the fibers apart (large diameter) determine greatly the amount of stress these fibers experience. Fibers that have the greatest ratio of compression to tensile strength make the best fibers for rod construction only if they are also “tough” this toughness rating is called strain rate and in many cases is more important than the modules or stiffness of the fibers. So there are several factors that determine a rod’s stiffness. The fibers, the fiber orientation, and the diameter. Change those three factors and the stiffness or power of the rod changes.
If rod power or stiffness is expressed as how much a rod bends under a given load than action can be described as where the rod bends under a given load. Rods that bend near the tip can be considered fast action, rods that bend in the middle are bla, bla, bla…. You get the picture.
If you can get this across to people you are doing well above average. Even most fly shop owners confuse and mix up these two distinct properties of a rod. You can often hear someone say “those fast action stiff rods help you cast far…” Action and stiffness are two different things.
Good luck,
Tim
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Comment: I had neglected to mention a very important aspect of rod action & rod power , which he brings out in his message:
1.) Rod action and rod power are two different things.
2.) "........Rod power or stiffness is expressed as how much a rod bends under a given load. "
3.) "...action can be described as where the rod bends under a given load....."
4.) The "strain rate" or toughness of a rod or rod section is the ability to bend under load without breaking.
Tim is not looking at rod power in terms of the ability to carry a greater weight of line, but, rather, the ability of the rod to resist bending. A different way of looking at it.
This means that a more powerful rod will bend less with a given load . Since action is described as where it bends, one might cite the example of a very powerful rod for fighting large fish as having most of its power in its stiff butt section allowing the more limber tip and mid sections to flex to the point that the angler is actually fighting the fish with a short/stiff rod. These rods also have a high, "strain rate" or toughness to resist breaking under great load. Rod manufacturers sometimes refer to this as, "lifting power".
A very different way of looking at rod power in terms of the weight of line it can carry ! (That rod described, above, may well be a poor casting tool. Because of its limper tip and mid sections, it may not be able to carry a heavy grain wt. of fly line. For this reason, it is suited for making very short (20' - 35') casts to large pelagic fish behind the transom of a boat.)
As far as the ability of a rod to handle a particular grain wt. of line is concerned, let's look at a different example: I can have a 6 wt. rated fast action fly rod with very stiff tip, mid-section, and butt sections. This rod won't be able to carry the same range of fly line wts. as my 8 wt. rod which has a full flex profile including a, "soft" or limber tip section, mid section and butt section.
Looking at another way, we can have fly rods with widely varying flexion profiles ...... stiff tips, limber tips, mid-sections which are stiff or limber, and butt sections either stiff or limber. Each of these rods may well have the same ability to handle a particular range of fly line grain wts. Their "actions" will differ greatly.
Gordy
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From Troy Miller:
I replied to Allen about this. See attached file above. I’m not talking theoretically, I’m talking from experience. A soft rod in a beginner’s or intermediate’s hands will, within 30 minutes, be throwing mostly tails. In trying to cast further and further, they’ll overload the rod and NOT compensate by lowering the stopping point. Tail.
Here’s what I typically see. Beginner with a soft rod. I can have him casting to 30 feet with nicely shaped, parallel-legged loops in 15 to 30 minutes. I walk away to work with another student. I look back, and he’s already ripping 15 more feet off the reel. 5 minutes later, punching the rod without increasing stroke length/butt angle, he’s got tails in both directions. (This assumes I’ve done an effective job of keeping from “windshield wipering”, which will usually cause an open loop with ANY rod he’s using…)
Beginner with medium fast rod. First 15 to 30 minutes, try to get the student to put something into the cast to get some rod flex with only 30 feet of line out. Due to the slightly domed RTP, get a 2-1/2 to 3’ loop height. OK. Walk away like before, and I see the student pulling line out. As he punches the rod, it’s got enough backbone to resist caving in, and actually throws a pretty nice loop. He got a better SLP now than when he was using “too little” line out of the rod. I like the way this scenario goes, because the student leaves feeling that he gradually improved during the session. In the first scenario, the student feels like he started out pretty well, but then digressed. Student doesn’t leave enthusiastic and ready to practice at home.
Regards -- TAM
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A question for the Group from Tom Zacoi :-
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Tom: THE best writing I ever saw on that subject was the expanded outline of Jeff Wagner's Conclave Workshop on distance casting. Perhaps we can coax him to send a copy (??????)
Reading the article (included in the Master Study Outline) by Al Kyte and Gary Moran will go a long way to helping.
Let's give Tom some other suggestions from Group members..............
Gordy
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