Shooting techniques & line management

Walter & Group........

Greetings from Tom Zacoi :

Happy Labor Day To One And All,

 

I am eagerly anticipating all the answers to your question/statement regarding techniques to reduce friction, minimize line slap, minimize friction between the tip top and fly line, guide material, etc.

 

Good day and God bless,

Z

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Mack Martin :

Gordy:

 

I received an e-mail from Scott regarding comments that your requested from interested parties related to line shooting techniques. I have done some work in this area, so I thought I would offer some comments.

 

Several of my rod building associates have insisted that adding more stripping and snake guides to a rod will minimize the addition of fraction caused by the line slapping the rod when line is shot. Typically they add at least one additional stripping guide and three to five snake guides to a 9 foot fly rod. Of course the addition of stripping guides does not change the net coefficient of kinetic friction for the rod, but does add cost and weight to the rod. The question that is typically debated is exactly how much line slap takes place during casting when line shooting is desired to be maximum. Moreover, where does that slap take place because the friction from the guides is a constant no matter where they are located?

 

In order to address this question, we took numerous digital film along various sections of the fly rod while line was shot over different lengths. Then these clips were slowed to very slow speeds to allow us to see what the line did along the rod length. Basically what we found is that the line contacts the rod numerous times between the first and second stripping guides and very little after the second guide. Subsequently, gravity keeps the line at the bottom of the remaining guides after that. When we add a stripping guide between the first and second guide locations on an rod, the line no longer slaps the rod at all. So the addition of any snake guides beyond that point is just a waste of money.

 

 

Regards....

M. A. (Mack) Martin Jr.

Manager/CCI Atlanta Fly Fishing School

http://www.atlantaflyfishingschool.com/

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Comment:   I appreciate Mack's input.  Interesting study.

 

Guide weight can now be overcome by using the Titanium/nickel guides.  These guides have a very smooth finish by virtue of the fact that upon exposure to the atmosphere titanium gains an oxide on the surface which is a thin layer of clear ceramic.

 

Al Crise, as I understand it, worked with Joy Dunlop with a study which showed essentially what Mack has taught us.  They made many fly rods with a second stripper guide mounted just  few inches beyond the first stripper.

 

This information and more can be found in Don Phillips', THE TECHNOLOGY OF FLY RODS, pp.72 -76.   Don points out that the relative diameters of fly lines and guide rings are sufficiently disparate as to make the use of very high diameter rings unnecessary, whereas haveing the stripper guides mounted higher on the rod blank did make positive difference.  Tom White did a similar study which showed the same thing.

 

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Ally Gowans :

 

Hi Gordy,

 

I’m very pleased to be included in your group and am enjoying and learning like everyone else I guess. “All of us are smarter than any of us” come to mind!

 

Shooting line. I fish a lot on fast rivers and have to wade deep and need to shoot lots of line to cover the water. Management of the running line is very important just as it is on your skiff. Line trays are out of the question because I would get swept away by the drag they impose when wading deep in these waters and so the line is held in loops in various fingers of the line hand, of a loop size that will significantly reduce drag from the current on the outgoing line (if one large loop was used the drag would be very significant). Several fingers are used to help prevent tangles when the shoot is made. In this way, with a two handed rod very long shoots can be made, especially with monofilament running line. The technique is also useful for single handed rods especially where there is lots of herbage to catch the running line.

 Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ally ....    The very reason Rick Whorwood and I started this Group years ago, was so we could learn.  It is so true that we learn from one another !!

Some skiff fishermen use a bucket or bucket like device called a, "line tamer" to hold coils of line.  This helps prevent the line from blowing off the deck in high winds.  Years ago, in the heat of the tropics, the fly lines were all too, "soft".  SW cores hadn't been invented.  We would coil the line in a small garbage can with some ice in the bottom to stiffen the line for long shoots.

When fishing from native skiffs in Central and South America, line management can be a real problem.  I take a roll of wide masking tape to cover as many protrusions and, "line grabbers" as I can.  Same thing when I fish for billfish and tuna from cockpits of sport fishing boats.

I'm guilty of being very short sighted in discussing line management for the shoot only in terms of our salt water flats fishing from the deck of skiffs !!!!!!!!!!

Of course, line management on the river or stream is extremely important.  When fishing Alaskan rivers, I've held the loops lined up evenly between the thumb and forefinger of my line hand, leaving the finger/thumb pads to manage the hauls.  I use a technique described by Joan Wulff (and many others) where the first loop is long, (Her, "for the river") and the latter ones progressively smaller.  That way they are a lot less likely to tangle on the shoot.  When using an intermediate sink (say class  I) line, I use my line hand to, "flip" the loops up to or near the surface before making the presentation cast.  I suspect that one of the reasons you are using several fingers is that when Spey fishing, you have a lot more line  to manage.

For shallow river wading or surf wading, some have used various things like belt or shirt pocket hooks or even simply tucking the loops in a wader or trouser belt.  Some hold a loop or two in the mouth.

In the surf, or on a rock jetty, a stripping basket is used by most.  (Ed Jaworoski made me one which is the best I've seen....large enough, drained (in case I take a wave), and with spikes in the bottom to control the line and keep it from tangling.))

I learned from my father to use a figure of 8 palming of the line when fishing small trout streams.  On the shoot, I simply open my line hand and let the line fly.  Once you get good at making the fig-8 coils in hand, it never tangles.

When doing demo's on grass, I sometimes use a beach towel upon which I coil the line..... especialy in Florida where the grass often has devilish little growths which reach out and grab the line.  If very windy, I wet the towel.

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`